At the time of writing, I am in my mid-20's, however I work about 18 hours a day, and I most likely will continue my grinding work schedule until I am in my mid-30's, at which point I will go down to 9 to 5, 4 days a week, without taking a pay cut. It's part of the profession. I do not have the time or energy at this point in my life to maintain relationships, and the times I've attempted it have not worked out.

I can deal with the next decade or so of life absent of romance. When I have more time in my mid-30's, however, I will not look for a girl my age, as they most likely will have much more relationship experience than me. Beyond this, I can't imagine I'll be more attracted to girls in their mid-30's than the categories of girls that I'm attracted to right now (typically about 5-7 years younger than me at present), least of all because I will not have psychosexually aged with respect to the opposite sex. I would not take a decade of sacrifice to my love life if I couldn't look forward to roughly the same potential then that I have right now. I'm not particularly attracted to gold diggers, but in a way, I realize that every girl is hardwired to be a gold digger to some extent, so I expect that it will help that I will be making six digits by then, in my current career path. I know it's sad, but I'd rather initially attract a girl that I'm attracted to with a fanfare of wealth than a girl that I'm not attracted to with the charms of my personality, if it came to that. That said, not to confuse anyone, it would be ideal to attract a girl that I am attracted to with the charms of my personality, but with such a large age gap, I'm skeptical that could spontaneously happen. Also, at that point in time, there will be a small window before I hit my 40's, and I'd like to have my first child before I turn 40.

So I am wondering whether a 15-17 year age gap, when the guy is relatively inexperienced with relationships and is in his mid-30's is doable, or whether that is disgusting and creepy (as I often hear), or generally what all of you think about that.

ziccawei said:

You mean in China?   [snip]

I could not do it.  Many Chinese girls can be very immature but at 20 they often have the minds of small children.  I could not bear to listen to whatever she would say at that age. [snip]

Thank you for reminding me. I did mean in China. I know what you mean about how immature and childish 20 year old Chinese girls can be, but frankly that doesn't bother me. I wouldn't want to miss that part of life with a girl that I plan to spend the rest of my life with. When a girl is already mature, I feel like I've missed out on some of the most important, formative years of her life already.

Also a good point about covering her cost of education. Not to get ahead of myself, but I would probably rather encourage her to attend a western university (which I would cover), or even a HK/Singapore/other university; do you think that would be asking a bit much? It's just that I have heard some pretty awful things about the condition of higher education in China. Maybe the higher education situation in the mainland will improve by then though, 10 years is an epoch in China after all.

Bored in Melbourne, we clearly do not see eye to eye on much. I don't want to mould a young child into a perfect wife. Frankly, I am a little insulted you would suggest that. I would in this suggested future look for a wife that I can grow together with, not some woman to live with who thinks I'm a lot of fun, but otherwise she has her own life and I have mine. How many 35 year olds that you've just met will want to share a single email account, bank account, and collective identity with you? By that age, they've forged their own way in life far too much for any of these things to be likely. Furthermore, you insulted me yet again by suggesting that no 20 year old Chinese girl would ever genuinely want to be together with a 35 year old western guy who doesn't have extensive relationship experience, or specifically me. Note, relationship experience and life experience are two very different things my friend. Also, I don't really care if you can't stand the idea of it; I explained adequately enough that it doesn't bother me now and it won't bother me then. As for "sending her off to a western university", it sounds like you're assuming I would send her off to a university in a location that I do not reside. Not so. Said university would be where I am established at the time; most likely Hong Kong.

Thank you all for the feedback, to respond to each post in order:

Crystal said:

I like the title of this post "age gap by design". It means that you can see the situation from side.

I understand what you mean saying that by the time you finish your studies you will still not have a lot of experience in relationships, and that you would like to find a young girl.

However, I see few flaws in this design.

1) The girl who would be ready to enter relationship with a man 15 years older – possibly doesn't expect to grow up together with him, but to have an experienced man by her side. Being financially stable is good but it's only part of the story.

2) Planning your own life is a good thing, but to some extent you are turning the girl into a part of "perfect plan". Somehow, it feels as if she doesn't have a real value of her own. Of course, believing in fairy-tales that somewhere in the world there is a "second half" which is your destiny and you only have to find her is childish – but a little bit of fairy-tales and sweet dreams is always good.

And your plan is so pragmatic. Where is romance? And what if you meet "your one and only" BEFORE you finish your studies?

3) Finally, I believe that plans never catch up with the changes. I am myself sometimes surprised how much I changed after meeting my boyfriend.

 

I don't say that your plans are not good. If things happen in this way – it might be even perfect.

I just wish that you can meet someone who will be more important than plans.

I have no shortage of life experience, but relationship experience is another matter. In terms of life experience, try not to assume anything about me. There is no "perfect plan" for life, but there is a range of acceptable outcomes and unacceptable outcomes. I plan for the best possible outcome and expect an acceptable outcome. An unacceptable outcome is if by my mid-30's, I would have nothing but solitude to look forward to. An acceptable outcome is if I have a few failed relationships and eventually one good relationship. The ideal outcome is what I alluded to in the original post. Obviously, I do not expect the ideal. Romance is what one makes of it; I consider myself to be very romantic in the context of a relationship, but everyone has different opinions. You make a good observation about my pragmatism, I have a very orderly life, that's just who I am. There are many possible alternatives that I would be very happy with, however I don't intend to scrap all plans just because whatever happens, happens. Plans change all the time, this I realize, but it is not an excuse to stop planning. You adjust your plans accordingly, and maintain your goals as long as you see fit. My goals rarely ever change, but my plans often do. In life, nothing is constant, but some people are more consistent than others. I am very consistent, for better or for worse. I believe that any respectable husband has plans before marriage, and plans after marriage, and doesn't really begin planning about what goes on after marriage (except those things that portend to the selection of marriage, such as whether to have children or not), because after-marriage plans are made together with the wife. On the note about the possibility of meeting a girl before my mid-30's, of course I would prioritize that, but the chances of that are slim. As I mentioned above, I work all the time. While I would prioritize the right girl over work, my current career will result in relatively assured financial security for life by my mid-30's, so I don't want to jeopardize that by looking for relationships prematurely. If it happens, it happens, but all that I'm saying is that I'm not going to go out looking for it.

Bored in Melbourne said:

Very well put Crystal.

Another thing that I think you need to consider Fiver is that the company and support of a great partner as we progress through life is wonderful thing.  So although you might not feel that you have time for a partner, you might find that you have time for the right partner, and although all women want to feel that they are the centre of our attention most Chinese girls also find they are attracted to driven and successful men, so your focus on work can be acceptable.  The type of woman who cannot accept you are working towards a better future might just be a princess, and better off being avoided.

Who's to say that she will not also have other important things to work on?  She might be a student now at this stage while you are focused on work so might she.

As Crystal said, we might like to plan out the perfect life, but how can we control the outside environment or adapt our plans to suit the changes, further to that how can we be sure our plan is the best one for someone else?

 

As mentioned above, I am not at all averse to the idea of accommodating a relationship much sooner, if it is possible. The main challenge to that is that my attention is almost wholly directed elsewhere, and I spend more time at the office than the average Japanese salary man. I would be absolutely thrilled if a girl was so patient as to put up with my current lifestyle, but it would be foolish to expect that and not to plan for alternatives. In my original post, I may have come across as overly rigid and closed to alternatives; nothing could be farther from the truth. I am merely trying to justify my career as being worthwhile, if it is to come at this cost.

Crystal said:

I thought again about Fiver's plan for a while and found an interesting analogy with decision of people to postpone having children in order to pursue careers.

The difference, however, is that:

1) you indeed can plan when to have baby

2) you cannot break-up or divorce with your child

 

So here is the logical question and I hope that Fiver will answer it.

Maybe he is so serious about his future girlfriend – that he doesn't even imagine the possibility of break-up, and from the very beginning thinks that the first one he will have serious relationship with – will be his one and only and forever.

Statistics say, however, that 85% of people have at least once gone through a process of breaking up. 

I do imagine the possibility, and even the likelihood of breaking up, however I think the probability of it does necessarily decrease after giving birth to a child. In stating that I would like to give birth before I am 40, the reason is because I would like to live to see my grandchildren, and if my children delay birth as much as I have, then that probably will not come to pass. Also, the probability of birth defects, while much closely correlated to the woman's age, is also, to a smaller degree, correlated to the man's age at the time of inception. I feel this is all the justification I need to look for a much younger wife, however there is more to it, and I don't really need to justify myself to begin with. To the point of your post though, you're right in that I invest a lot into relationships. I have in the past, and I will continue in the future, but it's wrong to assume that I've never experienced break ups before, or that I don't expect break ups in the future.

ZhuBaJie said:

Crystal, you are wise beyond your years; BiM, I can't say that about you, since you aren't that young anymore!  You are wise into your years, how's that? 

 

Fiver, there's nothing wrong with thinking this through some, but I fear you're over-analyzing. There is much that will happen to you between now and when you are thinking your relationship plan would be executed. I'm reminded of something from The Art of War by Sun Zi, I think it goes something like "he who enters a war without a plan is an idiot, he who doesn't change his plan during the war is a fool." 

 

Planning can be fun and even fruitful; but life won't care about your plans. Much of the depth, joy, and greatest happiness of my life (more than double yours in years) has come unexpectedly, and I now give thanks each day for that randomness my Chinese wife calls "fate." 

 

But more to your real question: as has been said, a 15 year age gap is not as big a deal in China as it might be in the west. Personally, I would not do it, as I want someone with deep life experience to share with, to learn from, to help me live even more fully from the benefit of her experience. I have a 5 year difference, and that's enough. 

 

Hopefully we didn't run you off Fiver; don't let your ego be so reactive here; there is much we don't know about each other, and with only the words on this page, we have to go with that. BiM has been here a while and has things to say that are worth listening to.

If you really want to compare dating with war… you may be onto something. Again, I don't expect my plans to go off perfectly without a hitch. That said, a good plan is both flexible and well thought out. My intention here is to advance the latter component, while I am perfectly capable of handling the former component. Although I am still young, I think it's safe to say that I have had a more varied life experience than most people my age, and it has not been without innumerable changes, reworks, and scraps of plans.

I'm not discounting BiM's advice. I did get off on the wrong foot, and I hope I didn't offend anyone. I'll admit, I have more of a temper than I ought to, but on most days, I'm not so highly reactive. All of the advice has been good, however, I should hope people can avoid making baseless and offensive assumptions about me as well. Having said that, I can understand where BiM derived his assumption about me wanting to shape and form some child into a perfect wife, it's just that's a pretty offensive thing to assume about someone. And I'm not sure what about a 20 year old girl can be defined as a "child" either; it's kind of offensive to Chinese girls too. In any case, the discussion is what it is. I didn't ask for criticism of my morals or personality, just of the age gap dynamics of this particular scenario.

Django said:

I don't get why you are asking.  You asked the opinions of people here and after they give it, you get all defensive and upset.  Its unfortunate that they don't agree with you but that's what can happen.  I think everyone here sees problems with your plan and they're trying to let you know from experience why they don't think it will work.  No one here is going to wish you ill will, however your reaction makes it seem that you didn't want advice in the first place.  At least not advice that didn't already confirm your opinion.

I'm glad you noticed. I probably didn't articulate this very well earlier, but I'm not interested in what people think about my personal prospects in executing this plan. What I originally wanted to know was generally, given the parameters set in the original post, what could be made of those circumstances. I was disappointed in that most people who replied spent most of their time questioning the veracity of the parameters that I set, questioning my own character, and then assuming that by questioning those things, the original scenario no longer existed to comment on. I welcome comments that do not try to play with the parameters, otherwise I will just be annoyed and maybe defensive.