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Is Yellow Fever an Expression of Pedophilic Tendencies?

黄热病是一种恋童癖倾向的表现吗？
Tobias Hubinette

Dr. Tobias Hubinette was adopted from Korea and lives in Sweden

In July 2005 ”Times Higher Education” posted the information about academic scandal that arose in Stockholm University. Tobias Hübinette – the doctoral student from Department of Oriental Languages – was barred from a conference because of his controversial research on interracial marriages and adoption. Due to the multiple complaints received by university, its legal representatives had to investigate Hübinette’s works in order to determine whether they fall under the category of reverse racism.
So, what exactly sparked the controversy? To make the point, the aforementioned article quoted a sentence from Hübinette’s paper:

“what drives (Western man’s) fetishism with Asian women is quite simply pedophile tendencies”

After reading it, I naturally became very curious and decided to find the research itself. Unfortunately, the long searches haven’t yielded any result. Moreover, although there were tens different blogs and forums that quoted exactly the same sentence in their posts, neither of them provided a link to the source.
So, I personally contacted Dr. Tobias Hübinette through his site and asked him to send me the copy of his paper which he kindly did. The only problem was that the paper was in Swedish and hasn’t been translated to English (which actually explains why the multiple sites that discussed Hübinette’s work never linked to it).

However, the article itself was so interesting that in order to share it with my readers I decided to translate it with the help of Google Translator. Actually, the draft version of translation has been reviewed and corrected by Dr. Hübinette himself – so I can rest assured that even if the English version is not the precise translation, its original meaning has been preserved. Anyway, those of you who know Swedish language and want to read the original paper can follow this link.

————————————————————————–

Yellow Fever, is it a multicultural symbol or a pedophilic fetish? The white man’s approach to Asians has evolved into a mixture of exotisation, sexualization and pedophilic fetishism.

Unlike Asian feminists in the U.S., Swedes have been silent over the phenomenon of “yellow fever” – the fact that some white Western men have a very specific attraction to yellow East and Southeast Asian women, manifested in everything from marriage and relationships to prostitution and trafficking. It’s time to break the silence. Exotisation (the term commonly used when sexuality and ethnicity intersect) has historically occurred in a colonial context. It is obvious, however, that the colonial images about the sexuality of others have not disappeared after decolonization. On the contrary, many of them have been revived in modern times when white Westerners are forced to live together with their former colonial subjects in their own countries.

I agree with bell hooks who in her essay “Eating the Other” described why in recent times non-Western cultures are admired and coveted by white Westerners rather than despised and eradicated as under imperialism. Hooks linked it to a desire of cultural difference and colonial nostalgia. This multiculturalism exploded towards the end of the last century in the context of globalization and is expressed in the consumption of the Other that takes place both in popular culture and public life. […] In the post-colonial era white Westerners turned to ethnic niches where they can choose potential partners among their former colonial subjects. Hooks exemplifies it with an anecdote about a group of young white men discussing “ethnic experiences”. This colonial attitude of eating the Other manifested in relationships, continues hooks, is in fact the imperialist superiority disguised as multiculturalism – since the white partner is almost always the active one having the priority to choose in the relationship.

The first relations between white Western men and yellow East and Southeast Asian women have likely occurred in 1500s when Portuguese and Spanish, and later also the Dutch, French and British empires landed in the region. According to Ann Laura Stoler such relationships in Asian colonies during the Classical Colonial Period were encouraged as a means of ensuring the permanent European presence, particularly in the Dutch and Portuguese settlements. This situation, however, changed during the 1800s as the European empires considerably consolidated [their presence] through the increased emigration of European women to the colonies. Racial segregation was applied more and more often, and by the end of 1800s even concubinage became socially stigmatized in all European colonies in East and Southeast Asia.

Around the turn of 20th century the superiority of the white race and Western culture was put into doubt. European dominance was particularly challenged in East Asia […] The Chinese Boxer Rebellion with its anti-Western rhetoric, military victory of Japan over Russia and the rising anti-colonial struggle in Southeast Asia sent shock waves throughout the Western world and laid the foundation for the fear of the “yellow peril“. Basically, however, the “yellow peril” was nothing more but a modern version of the ancient European fear of the “Orient’s hordes”. The new awareness of the population numbers in East and Southeast Asia of the late 1800s created the nightmare visions that the West would be flooded with yellow people masses, and combined with the Asian work ethic it was considered as a matter of a not too distant future when the yellow race [would celebrate] victory over the whites. […] As an example, take the evil Chinese Fu Manchu, the subject of popular novels, who poisoned the drinking water in London.

While at the turn of the last century the relationships [with Asians] were officially condemned and the “yellow peril” was seen as a real threat, there was a subculture of forbidden lust and erotic fantasies both in straight and gay versions. The travelogue of Pierre Lotis “Madame Chrysantheme” (1887) and the legendary opera of Giacomo Puccini “Madame Butterfly” (1904) are two stories describing the bonds between A male colonizer and a female native, while the scholar Srilata Ravi has depicted the homosexual relationships between male French colonists and Southeast Asian men […]

After World War II and during the Cold War, European empires in East and Southeast Asia were replaced by the massive American military presence. Hundreds of thousands of young American soldiers were stationed in Japan, Korea, the Phillipines, Taiwan, Hong Kong, Thailand and Vietnam. It is precisely in this historic moment that the “yellow peril” and the “yellow fever” propelled the prostitution industry and gave the rise to today’s sex tourism, while the legislative reforms [back home] allowed the mass exodus of East and Southeast Asian women married to American men. Film studies scholar ,Gina Marchetti has convincingly shown that the romantic depictions of the link between the East and the West in the popular culture have further feminized the Asia’s oriental image, masking the U.S. brutal imperialism under romantic motives. The Asian migration and presence in the U.S. have since been heavily influenced by this history of relations between whites and yellows. Although the migration of mainly East Asian male “coolies” had started at the end of the 1800s, it was only in connection with the migration of nearly a quarter of a million “military wives” and their relatives during the post-war period that a major Asian-American minority developed in the country.

Today, 10 million East and Southeast Asians represent barely 5% of the U.S population. At the same time this small minority has the highest proportion in interracial relationships in the U.S. and this fact becomes even more remarkable as it almost exclusively refers to the Asian women, of whom according to the 2000 U.S. Census, depending on nationality between one-third and half of any age cohort is expected to choose white men as a partner. On the other hand, the proportion of Asian men who marry white women is almost negligible, which means that every Asian-American generation ends in a variety of relationships among women and a variety of bachelors [among men], some of whom choose to “pick up” a woman from the country of origin. This demographic imbalance has led to deep and almost irreconcilable divisions. Asian women married to white men claim that they are more polite (less “collectivist” and “patriarchal”), manly (less “geeky” and “silly”), stylish (physically bigger and “better looking”) and wealthier (richer and more “stable”) than Asian men, and that the latter cannot claim any right to “their” women. The sexualisation of Asian women and the equivalent desexualisation of Asian men is [also] reflected in the American popular culture […]

A parallel to this is also the African-American minority, where a disproportionate share of men chooses to enter relationships with white women, while many of the women are left without a partner.
In today’s Sweden, the view of [inter-racial] relations is influenced by the history of European colonialism and American imperialism, although the country hasn’t had [many] colonies and was officially neutral during the Cold War. In the postcolonial Sweden with its imposed multiculturalism, relationships between white Western men and yellow East and Southeast Asian women are viewed as almost natural and normal […] In fact, the “yellow fever” seems to have a special representation in Northern Europe in general, and Sweden specifically – as according to SCB’s estimation about 15,000 East and Southeast Asian women are married to Swedish men, while the opposite barely exists. Even the adopted men from East and Southeast Asia have in today’s Sweden obvious difficulties in finding (Swedish) female partners.

Here are three examples of Swedish “yellow fever”. Internet ads for Jewel De’Nyle pornographic movie “Asian Babes” (2002), the “Man seeking woman” personal ads in the newspapers from the 10/10 in 2003, and Harry Stevens travelogue “Traveling with Mr. M” (2003). Jewel De’Nyle “Asian Babes” belongs to the pornographic genre known as “Asian Girls“. An extreme example of this genre is “Sex: The Annabel Chong Story” [documentary film] by Gough Lewis (1999) which was shown at the Stockholm International Film Festival. In it a 22-year-old Asian-American woman has sex with 251 white men and there also appears an Asian-American man – however, with the sole task of “serving” in this “world record” by cleaning up afterwards. Internet texts contained the following advertisement of the movie:

“It’s a delight for eye to see these timid, slim and incredibly sexy little pieces […] in a way that only Oriental can. Come and enjoy the pleasure of these young girls, always smiling dolls with cute and hot bodies.”

The Swedish [interracial] personal ads almost without exception go under the title “Man seeking woman” where Swedish men look for Asian women, while again the opposite trend hardly ever occurs. There is a whole host of organized agencies and virtual meeting places for this target group on the Internet, such as “Thai contact” and “Thai women” where they can find marriage partners, get help with legal advice and practical tips and privately discuss between themselves what it’s like being married to an Asian woman. In a personal ad in the newspaper Expressen from 10/10 in 2003 I found the following text:

“Girl in 20-30s from Phillipines, Thailand or the like who lives in Sweden is wanted by a youthful 45-year-old man, 176 cm.”

Finally, “Traveling with Mr. M” by Harry Stevens (2003) is a true guide to the women of different nationalities in East and Southeast Asia written for Western men who travel around or live in the region. Another bestseller of this genre is “Women of the Orient: Intimate Profiles of the World’s Most Feminine Women” by Boye Lafayette De Mente which was republished in many editions. In “Traveling with Mr. M” two Swedes visit five different East and Southeast Asian countries to gain “experience” which they then share:

“Have you done it with any Vietnamese yet?” asked Maud.
“Oh my God, we arrived only yesterday… Is there anything that attracts you, then?” asked Lisen.
“Yesterday morning we’ve seen hundreds of temptations in white robes on the bike” said Mr. M.
“You are mean. School girls – isn’t it perverse?” exclaimed Maud.
“I think uniforms are chaste. You should have seen those Japanese” I say “By uniforms I don’t mean, of course, to do it with children!”
“The Vietnamese wear school uniforms until the age of nineteen’ defended us Mr. M.

What is particularly evident in all three text extracts in addition to the usual Asian orientalism standing for femininity, is that the Asian woman is expected to be young [accompanying] a Western man who is older, or even middle-aged. There is thus no coincidence that this type of relationship almost always follows the pattern “yellow girls – white elder men” in the same way as the mentioned counterpart “black boys – white elder women”. The Asian woman is not only feminized but also infantilized, and thus converted by the Western men to a pedophilic fetish – that is, an object that can be worshipped, and provide the satisfaction of repressed desires. What drives this fetishization of Asian women is nothing more than displaced pedophilic disposition that can be perceived as socially acceptable in an “anti-racist” relationship, and [even] praised for its multiculturalism. In such a way Swedish men having the “yellow fever” [not only] embrace the long Western tradition of colonial supremacy and walk in the steps of European colonists and American soldiers, but they are even rewarded for their pedophilic fetishism as being anti-racists.

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If you made it so far, scroll down and leave your comments!

Amateur translator from Swedish, Crystal Tao

 

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  • 3jay

    Seems to me like the entire dissertation has been written around a predetermined conclusion, perhaps tinged by anti-Orientalist sentiments and/or fueled by Mr Hubinette’s Asian/Chinese ancestry. Aside from the statistically-necessary percentage of paedophiles in every society, I’d say that most Westerners are attracted to Asian women because of- a) their perceived exoticism; b) their culture; or c) a combination of both and maybe some other small factors. Other than that, I believe Asian women are subject to the same “tests” that Caucasian women would undergo. Because ultimately, normal guys are looking for a standard set of positive character traits, which are independent of race and appearance. Perverts too have varying tastes, so it’s no surprise that some of them get turned on because of those so-called “child-like” girls. Attraction to lolitas is an age-old phenomenon, but it’s just that: a phenomenon and *not* a general rule.

    • mercede21

      Just another inferior complex Asian men who exaggerates,  generalize, bias. Bringing in no facts  +  no evidence to back it up. It’s always these ugly Asian men who talk about how white men fucked Asian women. Even our own men always talk about how their own women get fucked by White men. In the end such people only make us feel ashamed to be Asian.

      Well…how about?

      Mongolians ruled in Central Asia and Eastern Europe have mated with millions of white women. ( European mt-DNA is much larger in Kazakhs, Hazaras, Crimean Tatars, Karakalpaks than Y-DNA)

      Hundred thousands Chinese(Cantonese) coolies mated with White, Black, Latina, mulatto women. Even HK has 1.78% European mtDNA and Guangzhou 1.44% Persian mtDNA

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurasian_(mixed_ancestry) 
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interracial_marriage_in_the_United_States 

      Asian American men/ White women 219,000 couples
      White American men/ Asian women 529,000 couples
      Asian men/White women cohabitation 37%
      White men/Asian women cohabitation 45%

      • Carl

        Your statistics are incorrect. Asian-American men in IR marriage is less than 20%.

        5

  • http://www.magnoliaarts.com ZhuBaJie

    I agree with 3jay, this is a gross generalization and is, simply put, bad research. The student is the one claiming it’s the controversial nature of his conclusions that caused the row; I agree with the university reps that the quality of his work is low. I’ve seen, in my area (ethnomusicology), theses presented that were at least this controversial, but much better supported.
    I imagine this is not the entire paper, but there are several “great leaps” that are, to allude to Chinese history, not “forward” at all.

    • http://www.lovelovechina.com Crystal

      Actually, I have translated the WHOLE paper (maybe omitted just few sentences here and there).

      However, I am not sure what was the format of this paper (research, proposal for research or anything else)?

      • mercede21

        Just another inferior complex Asian men who exaggerates,  generalize, bias. Bringing in no facts  +  no evidence to back it up. It’s always these ugly Asian men who talk about how white men fucked Asian women. Even our own men always talk about how their own women get fucked by White men. In the end such people only make us feel ashamed to be Asian.

        Well…how about?

        Mongolians ruled in Central Asia and Eastern Europe have mated with millions of white women. ( European mt-DNA is much larger in Kazakhs, Hazaras, Crimean Tatars, Karakalpaks than Y-DNA)

        Hundred thousands Chinese(Cantonese) coolies mated with White, Black, Latina, mulatto women. Even HK has 1.78% European mtDNA and Guangzhou 1.44% Persian mtDNA

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurasian_(mixed_ancestry) 
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interracial_marriage_in_the_United_States 

        Asian American men/ White women 219,000 couples
        White American men/ Asian women 529,000 couples
        Asian men/White women cohabitation 37%
        White men/Asian women cohabitation 45%

  • http://www.magnoliaarts.com ZhuBaJie

    Good point Crystal, the setting for this paper and its goal should be considered in assessing its value. Still, his conclusions (“The white man’s approach to Asians has evolved into a mixture of exotisation, sexualization and pedophilic fetishism”), though perhaps appropriately attached to some people, are gross exaggerations and not supported. He would have done better to analyze the excerpts from the books, movies, and ads as evidence of a certain kind of attitude that exists with some people — that probably would be a reasonable conclusion. I’m thinking of the story of the blind men and the elephant… :lol:

  • Ignatius

    Hello, I´m new here.

    That was an interesting text. Interesting indeed. But it seems the author try to explain trhough history why now white men marries asian women. But that´s history. Now is now. And one man is one man, and one woman is one woman. In love you cannot generalize. If you find your love, you don´t ask whom will be. There are not only jerks in this world like in the text “Traveling with Mr. M”, you know?

    Until I met the woman I love, I had no true interest in asian women. I find them cute but never found one of them whom I was interested enough to ask for a date. In fact I always asked for a date to girls of my country.

    It´s me or it seem that the author is a little angry with white men?

    Looks like he´s defending things like sexism and racism, with a different style, but there are those sort of things…

    I find it funny.

  • Teacher in China

    I have to take issue with several things he has written here:

    1) “why in recent times non-Western cultures are admired and coveted by white Westerners rather than despised and eradicated as under imperialism. Hooks linked it to a desire of cultural difference and colonial nostalgia”
    The last line especially kills me. Those are two very different things, and to join together like that suggests that they both appear equally in the minds of “white Westerners”. “Colonial nostalgia”? Really? Ahh, yes, those were the good old days, when us whitefolk ruled over everyone with an iron fist and had wenches at our beck and call; relaxing under an umbrella in my white suit and cool blue shirt sipping a lemonade… give me a f*cking break. Why can’t it be simply an appreciation of other cultures? Why does it have to link back to colonialism? Ahh, right. Because I’m white. Since lots of white people have done it in the past, that means all white people thought it was ok since we all think the same and can never ever change anything about ourselves regardless of how many years ago something happened. I forgot about that.

    2) “On the other hand, the proportion … in the American popular culture”
    Didn’t want to quote the whole thing here, as it’s long. Seems like I now have an understanding of where this “research” is coming from. Someone’s feeling a little scorned, perhaps?

    3) “A parallel to this is also the African-American minority, where a disproportionate share of men chooses to enter relationships with white women, while many of the women are left without a partner.”
    I’d like to see some evidence to back this up.

    4) “Internet ads for Jewel De’Nyle pornographic movie “Asian Babes” (2002)”
    He’s seriously going to use a porn movie as support in his research??? These things are made to appeal to exactly the type of people he’s talking about: people with a fetish. Just because people exist with that fetish doesn’t mean that everyone even tangentially involved has the same fetish. Let me put it this way: there exists in the porn industry a film (or even a series of films) where black men have sex with women dressed like pirates. Does that mean all black men who like “Pirates of the Caribbean” have a pirate fetish? Isn’t it possible that some of them just like fun movies, and enjoy having a good time without any element of sexual fetishism?

    5) He’s seriously going to use one person’s ad as support for his research? How about studying at least 1,000 ads, analyzing the data, and then trying to make connections. How about comparing it to other actual Asian cultures, such as Thailand where it also quite common for older men to marry younger younger women within their own culture?

    6) He has said nothing about pedophilia until the very end of the paper. It really comes out of nowhere. How do you move from arguing about colonialist tendencies to pedophilia without any justification other than one ad in a newspaper and some asshole’s comments in a book? Frankly, it comes off as ignorant and childish.

    Like I said, some of this has merit, but too much of it comes off as someone trying too hard to prove something in order to make himself feel better. Take it more seriously bud. Do some actual research, get some actual evidence to back up what you’re saying, then get back to us.

    • HongBaoNaLai

      Why take his university paper that seriously?

      That’s the art of writing a university paper. To be BIAS. To pick a thesis and use what ever bull crap evidence you can find to back it up. And with a couple of peer reviewed articles to back it even further.

      Its basically like playing chess by yourself. You choose a side and you make sure that side wins.

      Have you seen a research paper battling 2 sides much? I’ve done it before and the professor asked me what I was doing. He said I’m making my thesis weaker and not stronger. I’m not suppose to give any points that will knock the thesis. Other words. JUST BE BIAS STUPID!

      Sure this maybe only an undergrad’s point of view but I don’t see much difference even when reading peer reviewed papers written by research students anyway. I’ve never read a peered review paper that deserves outstanding ovation.

      • Teacher in China

        I guess my big problem with it isn’t the bias. I have no problem with bias if it’s intelligently argued and supported by fact. His support for the really offensive parts is completely absent. As a university research paper, this would fail.

      • http://www.lovelovechina.com Crystal

        @HongBaoNaLai, as far as I know, in chess – in order to prove that one side has a win – you must prove it assuming that the opposition makes the very best moves (and loses in any case).
        So, your comparison was offensive to chess lovers :lol:

        • Nick

          In chess (at least Western chess), we usually consider that the player who wins is the one who made the second-to-last mistake.

          Chess strategy and tactics are so well studied that, these days, the only way someone wins at a truly competetive level is for the losing player to make one more mistake than the winning player.

          full disclosure: I was the captain of my high school chess team two years in a row. :-)

      • Nick

        I should question your professor’s advice. In my opinion (as a university professor), I think that a student should present ideas that oppose his or her thesis and then provide acceptable answers to those oppositions. That is due dilligence, and it shows that the student did not simply hand-pick only supporting papers but did real reasarch.

        The idea behind proper research is to find the truth, not simply support your pet ideas.

        Defending a doctoral thesis* normally involves answering such opposing papers and views. The fact that you sought out those opposing views and (I suspect) answered them should be applauded and encouraged.

        Given what I’ve seen of Dr. Hübinette’s work, I suspect he did not do the same. He had a point he wanted to “prove” and did everything he could to “prove” his point while ignoring anything that opposed his thesis. Shame on you, Dr. Hübinette.

        * the defence process is what is correctly called the “dissertation”, though that word is usually used to refer to the paper

  • ziccawei

    Thanks for translating Crys – good job.

    • http://laowaiink.weebly.com Mark

      So if I remember correctly, Crystal is from Chongqing, lives in Israel, has a Russian fiance, and can translate Swedish? Rock and roll.

      • http://www.lovelovechina.com Crystal

        If you insert the article’s text into Google Translator, you will see that it made more than 90% of job. I only had to change few words and shuffle the rest.

  • KopyKatKiller

    Poorly done… I bet he, like all Asian men who can’t get a white gal, more specifically a Swede, suffers from penis length envy! In fact, I’m going to write a thesis on that very topic!

  • Serenity

    Clearly a frustrated man, with a lot of bias – covered in ‘academic’ writing.

    Yellow Fever, assuming we take it as a negative, does exist of course. Nothing wrong with doing research into that. But he’s obviously going to a predetermined conclusion as you read the paper. Way to go bud, of course everyone with in interest in Asians is a pedophile colonial racist dickwad. I should do a research into how this guy got to this thought. I’m sure he’s had some kind of nasty experience with ‘western’ people and this is his revenge. Reminds me of a racist Chinese guy I met in China who said all white men are bad and exploitive and should apologize for what they did in China.

    • Nick

      “Sociology is a science in exactly the same way that jazz is a colour.”

      I’m sorry, but as someone with doctorates in two unrelated hard-science fields, I have a hard time taking Dr. Hübinette’s “research” seriously.

  • Woodlandowl

    I think the fever comes about when someone first learns about the culture. American culture is very feminist, which can be difficult for conservative, more traditional families.

    It is very true that Asian women to have a significant natural look of youth. They look and act a lot more polite and civil that American women.

    It is very creepy how odler men seek younger women. It is probably mental illness. They are soiopathic and unable to socialize with women their own age.

  • Nick

    While I am sure Dr. Hübinette is well versed in his field, I strongly disagree with him. I am not a sociologist, but I think he is over-generalising. I will freely admit that my sweetheart is shorter than I am, and while I think she looks younger than she really is she is still very obviously a WOMAN and not a child, and my attraction to her is hardly a manifestation of a paedophilic fetish.

    I’ve been approached by much younger women, and I personally find the idea of being intimate with someone young enough to be my daughter absolutely revolting.

    Some of us in the “hard science” fields have a little saying about sociology, which I think sums this up nicely. “Sociology is a science in exactly the same way that jazz is a colour.”

    I think Dr. Hübinette is the one with the problems if he thinks that men of European descent who find Asian women attractive are merely repressed paedophiles.

  • M.

    It has nothing to do with pedophilia, and everything to do with sexism and racism. In Western culture, Asians are seen as more feminine than whites, while Latinos and blacks are seen as more masculine. It’s why you don’t see Asian men as romantic leads in Western films, and why myths about penis sizes persist. It sucks, but it’s true. As far as I can tell, it’s only pedophilic to the extent that Western society values all women for their youth — and to the extent that income inequalities force (younger) women to look for (older) wealthier men.

    I think he’s also conflating sex TOURISM with sex FETISHES. The two are different issues with different sources. One’s fundamentally about economics and inequalities, while the other’s about books, film, t.v., and magazines.

  • Hawk

    From the Times Higher Education link posted above:

    “A doctoral student at Stockholm University’s department of Oriental languages claims to have been barred from a conference because of his controversial research, although conference organisers said it was because his paper lacked academic merit.

    …
    Hans Aili, head of the department, told the newspaper Svenska Dagbladet : ‘I see these texts as personal musings rather than scholarly research.’ ”

    I find myself compelled to agree with the conference organizers on this.

    • Nick

      Hawk,

      Thank you for pointing out and providing a reference to show that he is a doctoral student.

      Now I have absolutely no respect for him whatsoever. No, it’s not because he’s a student. It is because he’s a student in the department of Oriental Languages and he’s writing completely outside of his field and attempting to assert that he is somehow an authority on the subject on which he’s writing.

      I have two doctorates – medicine and computer science. I do not attempt to publish papers on sociology or linguistics because I have no credentials in either area. (Linguistics is a hobby of mine, but I’m hardly qualified to publish peer-reviewed papers on the subject.) I do, however, do work in computer science. (Medical research is messy and requires all sorts of paperwork whenever it involves living creatures. Comptuer research is much tidier.)

      He’s a linguistics or language student. He has no business publishing papers on sociology at a conference without some serious work to back up what he’s doing. What does this have to do with language or linguistics? The fact that the paper was rejected by the conference organizers makes it pretty clear that it must be pretty bad.

      I find his website amusing – he should not be publishing his thesis until it has been approved. If he is still a “doctoral student” and has not graduated, then his paper should be kept under wraps until it has been approved. Most universities have this policy because they don’t want to be associated with poorly written papers.

      Also, most universities have special terminology for doctoral students. A doctoral “student” is someone who is still in classes. A doctoral “candidate” is someone who has finished coursework and has an approved dissertation idea and is, thus, working on his or her research with the approval and advisement of university faculty. Doctoral candidates who have completed all the preliminary stages of their research (idea paper, proposal) will often indicate that with “ABD”, which means all but dissertation. That means they’ve done everything but had the final report approved and signed off.

      Mr. Hubinette, in my opinion, clearly has a serious chip on his shoulder about non-asian men dating asian women. Is he just jealous that he can’t get a date or something? I’m no expert on asian women, but from the perspective of a straight male he is a fairly good-looking guy. As long as he’s not a major jerk I can’t see why he couldn’t find someone. What he’s written seems to suppor the “major jerk” hypothesis, but it in and of itself is not sufficient evidence to make that diagnosis.

      I’m sorry for the rant, folks, but things like this really bother me. Don’t try to put ourself out as an expert in a field where you are not an expert. He’s a linguist, not a sociologist. He should be doing lingustics research. I hope he runs into his university’s time limit and remains ABD forever. I know that sounds mean, and I’m sorry, but people with that little respect for other people do not, in my opinion, deserve the respect that the degree ususally brings.

      • Zvi

        I understand your point of view on this, and it is the prevailing point of view in society in general and academia in particular. I do not agree however, and this is why: great research is great research despite its author. There was a time when polymaths roamed the earth, and penned their musings from Lux Aeterna to The Wealth of Nations, and we today benefit from those people who were brave enough to speak on subjects to which their credentials were self-evident. Dr Hübinette is NOT one of those people, and he has no business publishing anything except his own sad, racist weblog. Unfortunately, many (if not most) doctoral students and university professors are quite like him. To return to the point of my comment, it is a sad state of affairs when the argument from authority is so capriciously made to substantiate research.

  • 3jay

    After a second skim through this post, I find this fellow’s “thesis” even more laughable than before… And I also agree with Nick and Hawk here; this paper has no academic/scholarly value whatsoever! :lol:

  • jshomi

    The popularity of “Madame Butterfly,” the most performed opera in the United States, and “Miss Saigon” reflect how deeply the exoticism and sensualism associated with women and the Far East from colonial or imperilist eras still run in the West today. In that sense, our thesis writer has a point. But, there’s sincerity underlying it. I think it’s very moving to listen to the arias of Madame Butterfly, to imagine the young woman’s sacrifice, devotion and fatalism – even though it’s fantasy. Such humanistic feelings shouldn’t be denigrated with muckraking theories about pedophelia, or other labels.

    • jshomi

      In addition to “Madame Butterfly” and “Miss Saigon,” there’s “South Pacific.” These are extremely romantic and moving love stories and have always been very popular in the West. The “Love Duet” in Madame Butterfly, if taken literally, lends some support to Dr. Hubinette’s pedophilia thesis. Cio-Cio-San tells Lieutenant Pinkerton to love her “a little,” as though she were a “tiny child,” a “baby.” Obviously, it reflects the woman being devoted to him, not to in some manner goading Pinkerton’s pedophilia.

      :arrow: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWcxmyK7aSw

      • jshomi

        A couple of more things. These excerpts from “South Pacific” lend some support to Dr. Hubinette’s pedophilia thesis. One is an excerpt captioned “Younger Than Springtime,” involving a lieutenant’s affection for a very young, child-like Vietnamese woman. Also, there’s an excerpt captioned “Bali Hai,” an island where women were kept in seclusion from the sailors, which expresses the allure, attraction to, and mystery of such women to the Western men.

        “Younger than springtime”: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKnlF2bjPBc

        “Bali Hai”: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81NROmUb7o0

  • http://wanderingamericantravelblog.blogspot.com/ WanderingAmerican

    Sounds like this guy is just butthurt.

  • Meng

    First of all, let’s stop calling this clown “Dr. Hubinette.” He doesn’t have his doctorate yet, and, if he continues this way, he never will.

    As others here have stated, it’s obvious that Mr. Hubinette did research only in order to back up a predetermined opinion. Real research is a process of gathering evidence, carefully examining it, and then drawing a conclusion. As a graduate of one of the top research universities in the world, as well as currently being a teacher of English, I can tell you that, if I received this paper from a student, I would turn it down flat. There is no solid argument here, merely scattered ramblings that circle around several different preconceptions. One reader fallaciously commented here that a thesis should be biased. Bias has no place in a thesis, and is more at home in propaganda and mission statements. Mr. Hubinette’s “evidence” is compiled mostly from irrelevant historical accounts and claims of statistics that are both redundant and unsubstantial. If not for the first sentence, I would have a hard time determining what his thesis is. It is only in the final paragraph that he actually addresses the subject matter.

    While some of his points are interesting, I still am unconvinced of Western men’s pedophilism or “exotisation”. Mr. Hubinette is quite familiar with the shock-jock terms colonialism and post-colonialism, but he steers neatly clear of neo-colonialism, an idea that flies in the face of his ludicrous claims. He talks about, “…Modern times when white Westerners are forced to live together with their former colonial subjects in their own countries.” The West has been open to Asian folk as long as the West has been the West. Nobody is forced to live with anybody. Going on a diatribe about Caucasians begrudgingly letting others live alongside them is as useless as it would be to imply that Caucasians want to return to a colonial lifestyle. Oh that’s right, he already did that.

    Mr. Hubinette provides paragraph after paragraph of irrelevant historical references, dating as recently as 1905. Many are literary accounts, written in such a way to provide dramatic effect, but offered here as historical evidence. He then leaps into a jumble of statistics pulled seemingly out of the air, from which he draws largely erroneous and sexist conclusions. Exaggerating stereotypes, Mr. Hubinette reveals here quite clearly that his own insecurities have slanted his argument. Mr. Hubinette should refrain from telling us what he thinks “polite”, “manly”, “stylish”, or “wealthy” mean, as they are merely facets of his own racist dogma.

    Mentioning pornography is ridiculous. As another commenter stated, porn is a consumer industry. There is a niche for every viewer. Of course there is a movie about an Asian woman in a gangbang. There are, I’m sure, gangbang videos featuring every ethnicity on the planet. Pornography is not known to be particularly delicate in its portrayal of women, nor of men.

    Reward for anti-racism in the West is such an antiquated idea that Mr. Hubinette ought not to mention it. Again, it is only his own insecurities that lead him to believe that people are going out of their way to prove they are not racist, rather than realizing that people are merely not racist. If he stepped outside his own racist microcosm for a moment, he would realize that the world is a different place nowadays, that most multicultural couples are together solely because their personalities are compatible.

    Thanks for the read, Crystal! I can always count on you to keep me satiated with food for thought. ;)

  • http://chinesedatingsecrets.com/chinesegirls SamReeves

    I don’t know why some people continue to use the term ‘Asian Fetish’, and connecting it pedophilia is downright insulting.

    Why is it that attraction, when connected to attraction to Asian females, is always put into the ‘fetish’ box. Yet if I’m attracted to women with blond hair no one says I have a ‘blond hair fetish’.

    I’ve only really found two groups of people who like to use the phrase ‘Asian Fetish’, 1. Asian males who are a bit upset when Asian women have relationships with white guys, and 2. Western females 35+ who are loosing their looks and worry all the eligible guys are going to date an Asian girl (with good reason too).

    I wrote an article about this as it drives me bananas: http://chinesedatingsecrets.com/chinesegirls/2011/03/do-you-have-an-asian-fetish/

  • bomber

    meh. White male with Chinese wife here. I gotta say, I don’t consider myself attracted to her because of any paedophilic tendencies on my part. I am not attracted to young or teenage Chinese girls (or underage girls of any other shape / hue for that matter.) Also not a “yellow fever” guy. I’ve Had many white girlfriends in the past, and I am still definitely attracted to women of all types.

    The guy who wrote this piece of hyperbolic trash is likely just trying to capitalize on the 50 year-old anti-white academic trend in the west. Blaming the worlds’ ills on white males is a quick way to make a name for yourself in predominantly white countries.

    I love how a white man being attracted to an Asian woman needs to somehow be classified as “orientalist” “colonialist” “yellow-fever” etc. This is especially hilarious given the vast number of Chinese men who love the idea of getting with a blonde-haired, blue-eyed girl. Even more-so the general attitude that having a white woman at your side somehow gives you “face.” A disgusting culture, and one I intend to shield my children from. They will grow up to see themselves as westerners and clearly understand the superiority of western thought and culture over others. But I digress…

    As my friends and I have said. It’s not that Asian men have small penises – using that as an insult is low-brow and basically reveals the idiocy of the person saying it. Making fun of people for things they cannot help, i.e. growing up in a poor family, being from the country, not attending the “right” middle school, having a small penis, being physically deformed etc. is something only the Chinese have mastered. Again. It’s not that they have small penises; its that they act like they do.

    /rant

    • Restaurant Unemployee

      “It’s not that they have small penises; its that they act like they do.”

      that explains the jingoism and nationalism too, probably.

      waving flags is so 1930s.

  • http://motpol.blogspot.com Hans Engnell

    If it is bad research it is not the first time. I know of Tobias Hübinette, he’s done so called “research” on Nazis in Sweden before, publishing a book containing names of people who he said were related to the Swedish Nazi movement. Since the book more looked like a phone book, he apparently wasn’t very picky about who was a nazi and who wasn’t.

    He’s simply a fool and he hasn’t made a name for himself in Sweden for anything of value. He’s also made stupid remarks like “white men are the inferior race” and such. Please just ignore the guy.

    • Nick

      “White men are the inferior race”? Sheesh. I didn’t know he was that much of a git. Thank you, Hans, for pointing that one out. Do you have a reference or citation for that accusation?

      Mr. Hübinette does raise an interesting issue, though… inferiourity complexes in inter-racial adoptions. Does Mr. Hübinette feel somehow inferiour to white people because he was adopted away from Korea by a white family? Is he lashing out now in an attempt to build up his own fragile self-esteem? I would have thought that someone in an inter-racial adoption would be MORE likely to be tolerant of other races, not less. I know many people in exactly that situation who are very well-adjusted individuals.

      I guess it’s the parents. :???:

      • http://www.lovelovechina.com Crystal

        Well, since this topic has been raised…

        First of all, from some sources I got impression that Mr. Hubinette has received his doctor degree in 2006.

        Anyway, from internet I learned that he was adopted from Korea by a Swedish family when he was just one year old. Paradoxically, however, he is a vehement opponent of international adoption as you can read, for example, here: http://www.duke.edu/~myhan/kaf0503.html

        Actually, international adoption is the central topic of his academic researches.

        Another notable factor is that Mr. Hubinette is a featured author for the site http://www.transracialabductees.org/
        which as you can guess from its name refers to “international adoptees” as “transracial abductees”.
        So, I guess that he indeed has some anger against white race…

        • 3jay

          What a jerk – instead of being grateful for the white couple who gave him a chance at a prosperous life, he attacks their peer group? My, my.

          • Restaurant Unemployee

            Especially to be given the chance to live in Sweden – you may as well have just won a lottery ticket – clean air (except for the Chernobyl breeze) clean water, free schooling, free university education, jobs, skiing, great hockey, beautiful women, interesting history.. his adoptive parents either fucked up raising him or he just needs to date a few hot Swedish women.

            As a tall white male I encounter so many non-white men with a chip on their shoulder – in our own country that we all share together – it’s pretty scary – all i can do is be kind and as polite as possible, and if I’m at work, to always work harder and to the best of my ability, just so they can’t say anything or internally confirm their prejudices, that we are all lazy and spoiled and racist.

  • http://www.ministryoftofu.com/ Chia-fu

    His thesis has some valid points, but his argument is weak. Perhaps he should use more quantified data to back his claims.

    Nice job on the translation, Crystal.

  • http://motpol.blogspot.com Hans Engnell

    Nick, the quote can be seen here and there but it originates from the multicultural magazine Creol (issue 1 1996) where he said (my translation): “To feel or even believe that the white race is inferior in every conceivable way is natural given its history and current actions. Let the Western society of the white race perish in blood and suffering. Long live the multicultural, miscegenated and classless ecological society. Long live anarchy!”

    So he’s a bit of a bum in many ways (the Western society IS multicultural for God’s sake…). Needless to say the quote above has been used against him on various occasions.

  • Jennifer

    Dr. Hubinette’s work is being attacked on this website using awkward personal jabs from “chip on his shoulder” (i.e. Angry Asian Man), “ungrateful to his adoptive family” (i.e. Angry Adoptee), “It’s not that they have small penises; its that they act like they do” (i.e. Asexual Asian), among other unsavory forms of racist backlash. What no one has noted except Crystal is that Dr. Hubinette sent her the article, helped her with the translation, and supported this forum, which is responding to his openness with stereotypical aggression that supports his thesis– Yellow Fever Is About Power, which has a dark and painful history that is PRESENT in this forum’s stereotyping language.

    The imperialist history of what Dr. Hubinette describes is alive and well in our current moment from Southeast Asian women trafficked into Korea to provide sex to U.S. soldiers stationed at 60-year old camp towns to the Asian fetishes that fuel other forms of human trafficking seeking pliable, quiet women. It is phenomena that he is not alone in describing and resisting, but what makes his argument unique is the way in which the Swedish intelligentsia reacted — fearfully and with much anger. The fact that Dr. Hubinette continues to elicit this kind of response, even here, suggests that he strikes a chord that is uncomfortable. If by reading his work, you dismiss it by saying, “I disagree with his ideas because of XYZ,” then that is fine and your right, but if you also personally attack him using explicit and implicit racist stereotypes, then you prove his point by showing your unhappiness toward a Korean Swedish man speaking– as you see it, *against you.*

    Among Koreanists and cultural studies scholars, Dr. Hubinette has an international reputation and is an authority on international adoptions, even pioneering and founding adoption studies. The fact that he remains open and generous despite backlash reveals a kindness that I hope others on this thread will consider as meriting their respect.

    • 3jay

      It would appear to me that the comments posted above have also presented strong and serious argumentation against Mr Hubinette’s paper. Please note that this is not an academic forum meant solely for scholarly debate. Rather, there are people here who are both able and willing to counter his arguments (and some have indeed done so), but some who are also rather peeved by his seemingly-personal attack and accusations against “the other”, i.e. white males. From an scholar’s point of view (being a Sinologist myself), I find that his general reasoning lacks a proper academic basis, a conclusion which is similarly echoed in the commission’s decision to turn down his article.

    • carlisle

      “It is phenomena that he is not alone in describing and resisting, but what makes his argument unique is the way in which the Swedish intelligentsia reacted — fearfully and with much anger. The fact that Dr. Hubinette continues to elicit this kind of response, even here, suggests that he strikes a chord that is uncomfortable. ”

      yes – i’ll tell you why that “uncomfort” exists.

      it’s because he’s said that white men who fancy asian women only do so because of some repressed paedophilic urge. it’s a clearly absurd thesis – if you’re going to claim it as some kind of general rule. Clearly RIDICULOUS and just very childish.

      He’s obviously come up with as some kind of means of venting his disgust at white men dating asian women. Which is predicated on some kind of desire to keep Asian women to Asian men. I can understand that emotion, but just express it openly if you hold it. Rather than coming up with some bizarre pseudo nonsense that slurs a great number of men as paedophiles.

      It’s a fortuitous circumstance of nature for us white men that we are generally larger than many Asians and enjoy greater wealth than the men in some south-eastern Asian countries presently. Which gives us an advantage in the dating game. I’m sure that will change with time.

      “If by reading his work, you dismiss it by saying, “I disagree with his ideas because of XYZ,” then that is fine and your right, but if you also personally attack him using explicit and implicit racist stereotypes, then you prove his point by showing your unhappiness toward a Korean Swedish man speaking– as you see it, *against you.*”

      What?!!

      Someone vents his spleen at white people – returning that vitriol with similarly racially-based abuse “proves his point”???

      No it doesn’t. It just proves that if you start shouting your head off in a racist manner, you get the same kind of abuse back. Tough luck. He deserves it.

    • Hawk

      Have you checked out his English language adoption / abduction web site cited in Crystal’s post above?

      It has been my experience that if one self-describes as “an angry pissed little transracially abducted …” one has relinquished any and all right to being indignant when people agree with him.

      I’d quote more from the site but it’s inappropriate for polite company and this forum.

      In the event it can be shown that interracial adoption isn’t preferable to leaving the child in an orphanage, he has utterly blown any chance he may have had to present his views to adoptive parents attempting to research the ethics of the issue. By spewing hate and bile he has assured himself of an insular audience. Spittle-spewing hate has never been overly effective in educating what might be one’s target audience. If this is the work of an “authority on international adoptions” I’d hate to see an unauthoritative example.

      I haven’t seen such bitterness and bile since I inadvertently stumbled across stormfront.org.

      No sympathy from here. What is it the Christians say? “You reap what you sow”.

      He offers no respect – he can expect the same in return.

    • Teacher in China

      I’m sorry, Jennifer. Nice try. While he may be all the things you claim him to be in your advocacy, in this “paper” he shows none of those qualities. Equating white men who date Asians with pedophiles is simply ridiculous, especially when it’s done using the types of support (or should I say lack of support) that he uses (i.e., pornography, in which there exists something to satiate every dark impulse imaginable).

      If he or you want to be taken seriously in this debate, you need to some some hard research and show some facts, not just use a lot of intelligent-sounding words that in fact say nothing.

      While I agree that some responses have maybe approached or even crossed a line of decor, I agree with what others have said above: 1) this is not an academic critique website; 2) give respect and you’ll get it in return – write trash and it’ll be responded to in kind.

  • Robert

    Wow! I am going to Fwd this to my wife! She is going to be shocked to think I am so perverted! I prefer the beauty of Asian women. Specifically, I prefer the glow of Japanese femininity. Why? Because I grew up in Japan! So what if I am Caucasian. I do not care if a person is purple, violet or polka-dot. Preferences for the beauty of one feminine form or the other has to do with appreciation, not some sort of sick malady. Also, I think it would be a pretty hard stretch to call me a racist considering that our children share both Japanese, Irish, and French genes.

  • Serenity

    Jennifer, his work is so ridiculously idiotic and racist in itself, it doesn’t really warrant a long counter-essay. The guy’s a frustrated jerk. An academic troll.

  • Hawk

    I’m going to go out on a limb and take a guess on why his paper inspires vitriol.

    First of all, the observations do not support the conclusions. To the extent sociology is a science, this is junk science. His conclusion regarding pedophilia in healthy relationships between a white man and Asian woman is a kludge (An ill-assorted collection of poorly-matching parts, forming a distressing whole). Unlike the traditional kludge, his doesn’t work.

    I believe he goes most profoundly off the rails by conflating unrelated phenomenon.

    One of these things is not like the other two:

    1. Prostitution.
    2. Human trafficking.
    3. Dating and relationships

    The distinction isn’t even subtle yet he projects observations on prostitution and trafficking onto people enjoying a healthy multi-racial relationship. Of course these people are going to feel insulted – they have, in fact, been insulted.

    I’m new here but I would surmise that many of the participants here are interested in cultural differences and gaining a better understanding of their partners.

    Let’s face facts: neither traffickers of human flesh nor those in a pecuniary relationship with a prostitute are going to have an interest in growing a mutually fulfilling relationship. Those that are interested in understanding and relating to their partners are not going to gleefully embrace conclusions about themselves drawn based on the actions of mongers and traffickers.

    For what it is worth, I don’t even think he got the prostitution and trafficking issues close to right – but that’s grist for another time.

  • JY

    I find some of the comments here funny. It’s basically “Insult the Asian man, date the Asian women,” or “view lowly of the Asian form of thinking, accept only the western version”. Why wonder so many Asians hate westerners.

  • Ziccawei

    ok so the guy has obviously rattled the cages of all the white men in China quite successfully. :mrgreen:

    To a certain extent I agree with the idea of pedophilia in relationships between white male and Asian female. If correctly researched and presented there is a strong case for this. I don’t mean in an illegal sense of a grown man wanting a sexual relationship with an underage girl, but the concept of it, the pseudo-eroticism of a relationship with a woman that looks childlike and young. I think, if researched well, there is a strong argument for this theory.

    Also this – it is just theory. A lot of people here seem to be getting in a right tizzy over a guy just positing something that is just that – a theory.

    I would also like to ask this. Now that many white men, often middle aged and older, are coming to China (and other Asian countries) and having relationships with younger women, how does this make the men of that country feel? I think this is something that could be researched as much as WM/AW relationships.

    Lets be honest, most white guys in China are total losers. A real freak show of men that never really ‘took off’ in their own countries and yet in China we’re all like kings.

    I have worked with, met and seen hundreds of white men in China that, quite frankly, come across as being complete losers, total geeks – and yet they all seem to e happily married or in a relationship with beautiful Chinese women.

    There is a strong case for Chinese men to be pissed off.

    Wouldn’t you be?

    :cool:

    • carlisle

      “”There is a strong case for Chinese men to be pissed off.

      Wouldn’t you be?”"

      yes i probably would be! of course.

      so just say “white guys, stop dating our women”. or ask Chinese women not to date western men.

      don’t take tax-payers money for an indentured position at a Swedish University, so that you can come out with some pre-school and utterly pathetic nonsense about paedophilia – just so some kind of repressed method of venting racist spleen.

      f&ck off to Korea if you hate us. there are far too many people here in Europe who get paid from our communal surplus to express racial hatred against us. with their shite “orientalist” crap.

      Chinese people wouldn’t pay us Europeans to tell them that they’re paedophiles – as expressed through “academic research” carried out at their own universities. .

      So Swedish people have got a strong case to be pissed off with this bloke, and wouldn’t you be.

    • Teacher in China

      Zic, I think that the “all white guys in China are losers” stereotype is getting really tired. I don’t deny that they exist, but I have been here a long time and met many people who are here professionally and are quite successful here and in their own country.

      As for the pedophilia thing – again, I don’t think it’s the idea in and of itself, it’s the fact that he posits it and does nothing /absolutely nothing/ to back it up. A theory can only really be called a theory if it’s taken seriously by the person who posits it. Otherwise, hell, let’s just all make theories all day long. Hey, I’ve got a theory: Thai men are pedophiles because a friend of mine told me that lots of older men like to marry women a lot younger than them.

      These kind of things rattle my cage because I resent being stereotyped just because I’m white. We should all get our cages rattled when we come up against ignorant racism of any kind, directed at any race.

    • Hawk

      And I would respectfully submit that his theory regarding pedophilia has no more merit than my theory that he and all of his ilk suffer from a clinically diagnosable case of sour grapes because his Asian girlfriend threw his bitter bile-filled butt over the gunwales for a less offensive, albeit possibly older, white male.

      Neither theory has merit until and unless properly researched but I’ll bet the rent mine is the more accurate. I’ve seen pseudo-intellectual claptrap before and believe I’ve come to be able to recognize it.

  • Tony

    Asian women hardly look like adolescents once they’re no longer adolescents themselves. In my world, middle class New York City, asian women aren’t forced into dating and marrying white men due to economic reasons and yet they do. We don’t see articles and scholarly papers posted here about any supposed illness or fetish that they might have. But, if I fall in love with an asian woman, I’m a pedophile. Well, if finding Nakatani Miki or Li Gong alluring is symptomatic of pedophilia, I guess I’ll go down to my local police precinct and register as a sex offender first thing in the morning.

    Also, many asian men date and marry white, black and hispanic women. If I were to say they marry outside of their race because of some unresolved homosexual tendencies (since non-asian women are supposedly very masculine), I would be an idiot and would be rightly laughed at.

  • Jennifer

    Again, this thread is very much misreading Dr. Hubinette’s paper. He is not arguing that white men are pedophiles, but rather he is saying that there is a documented history of White/Asian interracial struggle that has been about POWER and that continues to inform white desire for Asian women as young-looking and submissive.

    Perhaps the above sentence is harder to swallow than the easy formula that everyone here has accepted (i.e. white men are pedophiles.)

    As far as I can tell, I am the only Asian woman on this thread other than Crystal, and as an Asian woman, let me say that what Dr. Hubinette describes is valid in “a real life sense.”

    I have seen how this painful POWER struggle rattles my white husband and me when we walk down the streets of Korea, where other Koreans assume that he is a white sex tourist and I am his “paid girl.” The reality is that white desire for Asian women has created sexual exploitation such as “falang sex tourism” in Thailand, which is a 2.2 billion a year industry exploiting young girls for 20 baht a hand job (less than $5). This is not to say that white men who like Asian women are sex tourists, but it is to say that you must grapple with the ugly histories and persistent realities that inform such interracial couplings and that deeply harm and upset the communities to which Asian women belong. In fact, I get criticized more than my white husband by my own people for being with him, because they assume that he is participating in the economics, fueled by white desire for Asian women, that harm their communities.

    There have been times when my husband did not always stand up for me. He didn’t always understand how when someone said to him, “Oh you’re lucky! Asian women are so feminine and quiet,” that they were being racist toward me *AND HIM,* by implying that a power differential defined our marriage (i.e. He’s more powerful by being masculine and more articulate.) But we hung in there and continued to love each other. We work hard through his white privilege, which he grapples with, to find a more equal partnership where we can both feel empowered, where we can both make clear to the white and Asian people around us that we are not participating in their fantasies (e.g. you’re lucky to be with an Asian woman) or fears (e.g. you are going off with a foreigner who just wants to use our daughters for sex). We love each more deeply now because we can see where each other is coming from.

    While not all white men are pedophiles, all white men are privileged in a global sense, and it is hard to recognize and to accept. No one likes to be told that they benefit while others suffer. No one likes to hear that their privilege is implicated in systems that exploit that privilege and turn it into inhumane activity. No one likes to think about where their desire comes from. For example, how in the past, Asian women were not thought of as beautiful, but rather as ugly and strange looking insect types.

    What I appreciate about this thread is the continued debate that Dr. Hubinette’s work is making possible, which again was through his generosity toward Crystal and to this forum by giving her the article and helping her to translate it from Swedish to English. I regret that most comments on this thread lack that kind of civility, but I hope that my personal experiences might help to shed more light on how Dr. Hubinette’s analysis very much speaks to the realities of Asian women in a personal way inasmuch as a structural one.

    • Meng

      I’m sorry, Jennifer, but it seems to me that you have misread Mr. Hubinette’s paper. What he clearly stated is, “The white man’s approach to Asians has evolved into a mixture of exotisation, sexualization and pedophilic fetishism.” When you say, “He is not arguing that white men are pedophiles, but rather he is saying that there is a documented history of White/Asian interracial struggle that has been about POWER and that continues to inform white desire for Asian women as young-looking and submissive,” what you’re telling us is along the lines of, “No, he’s not calling all white men pedophiles, he’s just saying all white men like to have sex with Asian women that look like little girls.” Please understand, also, that Mr. Hubinette is using historical rather than contemporary evidence to make a statement about the white men of today, not yesterday, an inconsistency that cannot be overlooked.

      While it would be ridiculous to say that all white men with Asian women are really interested in their personalities, it is equally ridiculous what he theorizes here. What he ought to be talking about is the phenomenon of such, rather than generalizing with such vindictiveness.

      As you know, being in a multicultural relationship, pedophilia is far from what makes us fall in love with our lovers. Mr. Hubinette cannot accept this, and therein insists that, “what drives (Western man’s) fetishism with Asian women is quite simply pedophile tendencies”. Even the word “multicultural” is unacceptable for him so he uses the word “transracial” and refers to himself as a “transracial abductee”.

      Let me point out to you also that the term “fetish” does not imply something that the fetishist merely likes. For a fetishist, sexual gratification is so closely linked to the object of desire that they become obsessed and cannot be appeased without it. Do you honestly think that white men who date Asian women can ONLY date Asian women?

      I agree that there is an industry of westerners exploiting young Asian women as prostitutes, but it is dwarfed in comparison to Asian men doing exactly the same thing. Please don’t try to place blame for prostitution solely on westerners. In China at least, the statistics of not just prostitution but also rape of pre-adolescent girls is baffling. This has been around since long before any westerners stepped foot in China. Don’t tell me that it’s okay for Asian men but is wrong for westerners–it’s wrong no matter where you come from.

      I’m sorry that your husband doesn’t defend you more. I have gotten similar remarks, such as an aunt (who is actually Filipino) who said years ago that my new Chinese girlfriend must be, “willowy and timid.” Since she is neither, I made it quite clear that my love for her has nothing to do with any such stereotypes (in fact it is mostly because of a beautiful compatibility of personalities that I’ve never found before). I was surprised that an Asian woman who had lived so happily and in love with my uncle for so many years would have such a misconception about me, but I realized that it wasn’t her, it was her misconception about stereotypes.

      You should take this to heart, Jennifer. Is your relationship with your husband fueled, as Mr. Hubinette says, solely by pedophilic fetishism and exotisation? Does he get a sense of power from being with you, or is he, as I suspect, just in love with you for who you are? Do you think that your relationship is on such a singular and unparalleled level that many of the rest of us don’t have?

      I agree it’s too bad that there are some less civil comments on this thread, but that is to be expected with such confrontational subject matter. He is pointing a finger at us, and we are responding. Of course some of us will respond belligerently. On a personal level, of course I’m offended. Had he taken a different tact, this might all have been received more placidly. If you take a look at his other work, you will see that this is just one of many such vitriolic works. I appreciate that, as any scholar should, he offered his paper up for debate. This is the nature of any scholarly work–if you use the medium to attack a group, they will in turn hack you and the paper apart. Please don’t feel that we are all antagonistic and cannot take criticism. Usually, this forum is quite peaceful and copacetic. I hope this helps you.

    • bomber

      Hmm. There’s really a lot to go on here, so it’s difficult to choose a starting point. It is not difficult to glean your philosophical and educational background based on your word choice and the construction of your arguments. Collectivist language and race-based generalizations, especially those which place the worlds’ ills at the feet of the white man are intellectual constructions of 20th century foundation-based think tanks. These think tanks have supported such lines of inquiry as it enhances the dialectic both within and between societies. Where there is division, control is possible. Much like the second and third wave of feminism which seeks to intellectualize the relations between the sexes as being akin to a colonial conquest based on power differentials. Please, attempt to understand where your own ideas come from and why you hold them.

      You have argued that the relationship between asian / white peoples is essentially a struggle for power. This is in essence a marxist analysis of historical phenomena based on collectivist principles of guilt and and responsibility. I disagree with this as a premise. Though manifestations like this appear on the surface of historical analysis, the real power differential in societies is internal and not external; rulers and elites first and foremost exploit and enslave their own people in order to further their own goals.

      You focus on the SE Asian sex-tourism industry as evidence of your claim without looking for alternative examples that might disprove it. The Russian sex-trade and Bride trade is also a booming industry. Many Russian prostitutes are coming to China to service wealthy Chinese men. What about white men who engage in sexual activities with white, black or other prostitutes? And What about Asian men who sleep with Asian prostitutes? The point is that the power differential that exists in all of these relationships is related to economics. Chinese men, Korean men and Japanese men all travel to Thailand to engage in deviant behaviors with young men and women employed in the sex trade there. The obsession with white men’s proclivity to do the same is asinine. Placing it in its own category while making assumptions about the intentions, beliefs or ideas of the people involved is extremely shaky ground to be on. Once again, this is an economic phenomenon first, and a racial / ethnic / imperialist, etc. one in a distant second.

      One question that I would like you to answer is: What allows for the wide availability of Asian prostitutes? Are they being kidnapped from their happy little villages and sold into sexual slavery by whites? Is there not an element in Asian culture which could account for this low station of women in their respective societies? You make it seem as if the white devils are swooping in and stealing up all the kindly, deferential and feminine Asian women so as to fulfill their own sick sexual fantasies. You focus only on the demand (for cheap sex, I would argue largely regardless of race,) and forget completely about the suppliers. This is shoddy, victimhood-based scholarship (if one could even call it that.)

      I think that a large part of the anti-white sentiment on display throughout the world is based on jealousy. The actions of colonial powers are well-documented. Not so well-discussed are the internal social dynamics of Asian societies before the colonial period. Again it is this peasant mentality of “me against my brother. My brother and me against my cousin. My cousin, brother and me against my neighbor,” ad infinitum. The majority of sufferings during the colonial era were against the leadership class of the countries affected. To assume that the sufferings of the oppressor class in feudal Asia was automatically felt by the rest of society is a massive step. How could you know which outcome you would prefer? Are you bitter that Korea doesn’t still have a king? Would you like to return to monarchy? Stop blaming the white man for all your insecurities and start thanking western civ for inventing all the cool shit you use every day.

      I think that any talk of “keeping the discussion going” is silly. There is really no discussion to be had. This is a line of inquiry that has run its course. You see, western scholarship is different from others in that the arrival at truth is paramount. In other cultures, putting forward a bogus idea would ultimately result in that idea being integrated into the whole. There is no need to discuss this topic further until a much larger assessment has been made, and data has been collected in support of this thesis.

      Cheers!

    • Teacher in China

      Jennifer, you are unbelievable. Did you even read the last paragraph of his “paper”? Let me reprint it here for you. It is indeed “hard to swallow”, as you say.

      “The Asian woman is not only feminized but also infantilized, and thus converted by the Western men to a pedophilic fetish – that is, an object that can be worshipped, and provide the satisfaction of repressed desires. What drives this fetishization of Asian women is nothing more than displaced pedophilic disposition that can be perceived as socially acceptable in an “anti-racist” relationship, and [even] praised for its multiculturalism. In such a way Swedish men having the “yellow fever” [not only] embrace the long Western tradition of colonial supremacy and walk in the steps of European colonists and American soldiers, but they are even rewarded for their pedophilic fetishism as being anti-racists.”

      How can you claim that he isn’t calling white men who engage in relations with Asian pedophiles? Because he sort of talked around it by saying “expressing pedophilic tendencies” and other such academic nonsense? It’s very clear what he’s trying to say and there’s no backtracking or backpedaling that’s going to change that. I’d suggest that you at least own up to that much being true if you expect to be taken seriously in this argument.

    • http://wanderingamericantravelblog.blogspot.com/ WanderingAmerican

      Okay. just because people keep bringing up prostitution. Why do you think white people go to Asia for sex tourism? White people (Americans, Europeans, etc) tend to have more money for travel than others. Anti-prostitution laws in many Asian countries are weak and not fully enforced most of the time. It’s easier than going somewhere else. And instead of fully blaming white people for it shouldn’t you also be blaming the ASIAN people who sell their own into it? And don’t pretend like Asian women are the only ones forced into sex trafficking. Every country on every continent has a problem with their women being sold into prostitution. That aside, kudos to all the smart people with the patience to write actual intelligent responses. Good work.

    • Nick

      I’m sorry that you experience these difficulties in Korea. That is a sad commentary on Korean culture that they cannot accept interracial couples. It is even worse that your husband does not stick up for you. I feel sorry for you.

      I, fortunately, do not have these problems when I am in China with my sweetheart.

      Also, as a side note, it’s currently about 33 THB to 1 USD.

    • http://chinesedatingsecrets.com/chinesegirls SamReeves

      If power is the motivating force between relationships with white western males and Asian women I find it rather telling that the vast majority of Asian females with a western male will admit they have more ‘freedom’ with a western male than an Asian male.

      In my experience of couples of this type, the western male in actual fact encourages his partner to grow and be independent. This is less the case where the Asian female has married an Asian male.

      You yourself have chosen to marry a western male, and seeing the way Korean men frequently treat Korean women from first hand experience I know why. If you talk about ‘power’ I have seen no more dominance of females than I have from Korean culture. It’s shocking in fact. If I ever treated any female in public in my own country, the way I have seen Korean men treat Korean females in public, someone would physically hurt me in order to protect that female, even without knowing her.

      Your example of Thailands’ sex tourism is also flawed. The rise of prostitution in Thailand began when the Japanese occupied the country and the ‘Thai’ soldiers were moved to the north of the country. This is when local girls found a way to earn some extra Baht. This simply continued until the present day. It is a common fallacy that Thailands’ sex industry is sustained by westerners/’falang’…this is not, and has never been the case, as most Thai people if they are being honest will admit.

      If you were to mainly frequent the tourist regions of Thailand then yes, you would be forgiven for thinking that the whole prostitution industry is sustained by westerners. If, however, you lived in non-tourist areas (which make up the majority of the country) you would become aware of numerous ‘massage venues’ that are only frequented by Thai males. It’s common for many Thai males to visit these establishments once a week after pay day. The generally accepted percentage (by Thai people) of western to Thai males making use of prostitution services is around 80% to 20%, Thai males represented by the greater figure.

    • Bored in Melbourne

      Jennifer you have done a reasonable job articulating your point of view. However in terms of an academic piece you must accept that both your view and that of the apparent (I say that as there may be other significant collaborators) original author are very biased. Just as many others here show their hands as being biased do you also need to show your hand?

      You have gone part way in your comments, perhaps your own past experiences bias your view. We all have personal bias but the purpose of original academic research is to have the peer review process work out that bias. The direct mentions of the intention from you to remove racism from the multicultural relationship are basically levelled null and void by your own naked display of racial bias, white husband or not, do you have some issues to work on? re-read your posts again try to think how another might interpret your words. I’ll give you a hint, you are coming across as being against white males, very much against them.

    • ulickmcgee

      @ Jennifer

      “While not all white men are pedophiles, all white men are privileged in a global sense”

      I’ll give up my white privilege when “people of colour” stuff their tight fists into their zero sum pockets and pay us back for the sunk cost of inventing penicillin. Not for electricity generation, integrated circuits, computer operating systems or the internet upon which we communicate. Not for powered flight, the contraceptive pill, orbiting satellites, modern construction methods, organised sports, the rule of law, deductive logic, the scientific method, woman’s emancipation, the abolishment of slavery, right of asylum, workers rights or environmental protection legislation. Just for penicillin without which there wouldn’t be as many people of colour living in the world to suffer the horrendous damage that white privilege does to their delicate, fragile but at the same time strong and empowered egos.

      By the way, “not all white men are pedophiles” is very poor phraseology as it implies that many are. Compared to East Asians, we like ‘em a lot older, as you allude to below by stating that in the West you are sometimes considered to thin, young and pale. The AZN Dr. Biased Hubinette is psychologically projecting his own hard-wired East Asian preferences onto white male sex tourists who’d climb up on the crack of dawn. They come to Asia in such numbers for sex because the local men are into whoring and have set up a convenient system for doing so. When the girls are too old or not beautiful enough to service the locals, they move onto foreigners.

  • Jennifer

    @Meng. Thank you for sharing your thoughts. It is true that within communities there is also the perpetuation of stereotypes. For instance, markets that cater to white foreigners rely on natives as procurers, middle management, and coordinators, and such markets in Korea emerged first with Japanese colonization, where Koreans collaborated with Japanese to trick young women into becoming comfort women. Now, white demand fuels markets because white money pays the middle men’s salaries. It is a sad fact that Korean women sell Filipina women around U.S. camp towns clearly marked “For Foreigners Only,” and at the same time, Korean men pay pimps to sleep with Korean women, although prostitution is illegal in Korea. But the two are different in that Filipina women are trafficked in, their passports seized, and they lack legal rights in Korea. Korean women are simply not in that same situation when they cater to Korean men in Korea.

    I also understand that standards of beauty — willow-like and innocent — have multiple meanings. For instance, in Korea, I am considered too brown and round, but in the West, I am oftentimes considered the exact opposite — too thin, young and pale. So these standards of beauty do not always translate over, do not always make sense. Context is all.

    But the issue here remains the same. What can white men do to stop racism and to support interracial understanding in their partnerships with Asian women for the sake of love? Dr. Hubinette is not asking that, but I am, because I understand his work to have valid truths that I live with everyday as an Asian woman. I don’t have the answer, but I believe that white men can tackle the painful legacies that they have inherited and that they sometimes unknowingly continue to benefit from. I believe white men can deepen their humanity by tacking the inhumanity that implicit and explicit forms of white privilege promote. So I am hopeful about white men. After all, I am married to one!

    @Bomber. You lost me at this line: “It is not difficult to glean your philosophical and educational background based on your word choice and the construction of your arguments.” And then you made me laugh after this one: “Are you bitter that Korea doesn’t still have a king? Would you like to return to monarchy?” It is unkind of you to blame me for supposedly blaming the white man among your other assumptions that become silly toward the end. However, if you want to speak with me without assuming this, that, or the other, then I am happy to have an open and respectful conversation with you.

    • bomber

      Thanks for failing to address any of the points I raised.

    • 3jay

      And of course no such markets (i.e., prostitution) were in existence in Korea before the Japanese colonisation, I gather? Preposterous.

    • Hawk

      @Jennifer,

      Your calm explanation of the issues has given me some understanding that I didn’t have before. I still don’t agree with his hypothesis as I believe it to be fundamentally unsound. I didn’t want to get into the fundamental problems but it will be necessary to explain my position.

      You stated: “In fact, I get criticized more than my white husband by my own people for being with him, because they assume that he is participating in the economics, fueled by white desire for Asian women, that harm their communities.”
      Your statement I believe accurately reflects the good doctor’s assertion: that white male preferences for Asian women fuels prostitution and trafficking.

      The problem is that this is balderdash. It has no basis in reality, flies contrary to the sparse scholarly work on the matter and neatly inverts cause and effect similar to asserting that wet streets cause rain.

      It is tantamount to suggesting that USA drug users prefer Columbian cocaine when, in fact, they don’t give a wet slap where it comes from or what color it is provided it gets the job done.

      You are correct in noting that there exists an economic disparity and this, among a number of other factors, will play a part in the exploitation of young women. However, much like the white male drug user, the white male in commercial transaction with a prostitute really doesn’t care about her race. Matters of racial preference have been a non-issue in prostitution at least since Roman times.

      The reasons traffickers prey on Asian women predominately is no more complicated than the age old risk vs. benefit analysis any pimp will understand. The reason they don’t traffic in, say, red-headed Belgian women is that the risks involved are greater than the risks involved in abducting Asians. And, at the end of the day, the race of the prostitute doesn’t matter to the client. Prostitution and trafficking aren’t fueled by yellow fever.

      Hence I believe that a couple of the foundation stones of his hypothesis are already crumbled. If he offers nothing to back up the assertions that yellow fever fuels the less savory aspects of White / Asian interaction any conclusions drawn from these non-facts would be equally bogus.

      Occam’s razor has served me well. Generally the less complicated solution will be the correct one. Regrettably, there’s nothing very complicated about exploiting the vulnerability of some young women. Extraordinary assertions require extraordinary proof. To take the world’s oldest profession and lay the race of the most exploited (also most vulnerable) on the doorstep of white “yellow fever” is to make an extraordinary assertion. So far the only proof I’ve seen offered is reminiscent of number 5 in the list of the 7 signs of junk science. That does not bode well for the theory.

      I would suggest that he direct his research at possible complicity and corruption of the governments and agencies charged with the young ladies well being as well as economic conditions. I would be pleased to read the results. Frankly, I doubt he’ll go to the effort as the exercise might well point back to Asian complicity and what fun is that if you can lay the entire sorry affair off white males that can’t even remember colonial times?

      The guy has honed the victim mentality into a fine art.

      The victim mentality is like a drug – it feels good at first but it will poison one’s outlook.

      • ziccawei

        Don’t get me started about victim mentality. I just find this is a very strong trait in Chinese people.

    • Meng

      Please allow me to explain, Jennifer, if it came across that I believe otherwise–you are absolutely right that this stereotype did not come out of nowhere, such awful circumstances certainly do exist. My point merely was that it seems the paper in question suggests that such relationships can ONLY be this way, and you and I both know that is not the case. I agree with you that there are difficulties to overcome, as in any relationship. As you said, “What can white men do to stop racism and to support interracial understanding in their partnerships with Asian women for the sake of love?” But it’s a two-way street. Asian women should also remember that we’re not all neo-colonists, that most of us fell in love with most of you for the same reasons that any man falls in love with a woman. Remember that it is the 21st century, so the past may inform us but it does not define us!

  • a funny white guy

    @bomber (and other white guys like me): you seem to have a lot of questions in paragraph 4 and 5, then in paragraph 6 you say “There is really no discussion to be had.” Would you like answers or are you happy with not knowing? Here are answers from a perplexed European, who lives in the US because it’s very exotic, and who has been to Korea, which has the fastest internet worldwide http://www.netindex.com/download/allcountries and one can get cell phone reception in the subway, so much for the “cool shit” from the west. Especially the US lags behind with their culture based on oil and plastic, and political culture that consists mostly of only 2(!) parties. Why do I live in the US? I am a white guy who likes to be in exotic places. It’s fun to see fat degenerated people raging about how they are mistreated. I’d rather have a small penis and a flat belly than a big penis hidden inside my belly.

    And by the way, when a thesis raises controversy, academic scholars should be happy instead of being personally attacked. There is no need to complain about a waste of money for research, just look how many people spend free time to write here.

    • bomber

      My friend, I am having a hard time understanding your comment. The first one was meant to be insulting (though not without its point.) I freely admit that. The second one was actually meant to address the point at issue.

      I’ll do my best to answer your questions:

      The Questions in paragraph four are specifically related to the SE asian sex-tourism industry, and sex-tourism in general. Relevant to the Point at Issue as it was alluded to in the original abstract and then cited as evidence of white deviance by Jennifer.

      The questions in paragraph five were rhetorical and meant to highlight the point that one should carefully examine their own ideas and their own intellectual and philosophical paradigm and from where it originates)

      In paragraph six I stated that until solid evidence based on a reproducible data set of some kind can be established, that the argument has been settled. Charges of paedophilia, paedophilic tendencies and other such things, when applied to an entire race of people are damaging and can poison discourse. In the event that solid evidence, or at least somewhat compelling evidence could be established, then it would not be vitriolic. Think of if a man in your town had been accused of rape, or worse, child molestation. Regardless of whether or not he is found guilty, a cloud of suspicion and doubt will continue to surround him. Words matter, my friend.

      By the way, while you are in the states, I hope you find the means to copulate with as many willing women as you wish. I am not afraid of anyone “stealing” American ladies.

      Regarding the korean internet / cellphone example… Whoa. Not following you there at all. I didn’t realize that Korea had independently developed the internet and cellphones. There is an enormous difference between buying something, and inventing it.

      FTR The entire world participates in the fossil-fuel / plastics industry in one form or another… not really sure where you were going there, but your moral indignation sure is swell!
      Cheers!

  • Nick

    From what I’ve read here, it seem that the truth lies somewhere between Mr. Hubinette’s vitriolic papers and what those of us who have been in more enlightened parts of Asia have experienced. Jennifer’s experiences make it clear that at least parts of Korea are less developed culturally and socially than other parts of the world if they automatically assume that a western man with an Asian woman means that the woman is a protsitute.

    Mr. Hubinette’s lack of academic rigor in his “research” is certainly enough to make those of us in the academic community consider his work to be of questionable quality. I sincerely doubt that the standards of academic rigor are that much lower in his field than they are in the hard sciences. From even a cursory review of the subject, it seems that Mr. Hubinette is simply ignoring any published work that would contratict his beliefs. That is, in most fields, considered poor scholarship at best and academic fraud at worst. That is a matter best desided by those in his own field, as they are much more familiar with the published and accepted works in the field.

  • Jennifer

    @3Jay. The mass trafficking of Korean women for sex outside of Korea did not exist before Japanese colonization, and interracial relationships emerged as a result of U.S. military presence in Korea. As I mentioned earlier, there is domestic prostitution of Korean women for Korean men. There was also a kisaeng class who like geishas were courtesan entertainers and who were trained in arts and literature.

    @Hawk. Thanks for your thoughtful response. I appreciate it. A good book to read about these issues is _Sex Among Allies_ by Katharine Moon, which describes the emergence of camp town prostitution to serve the U.S. military. We see this same build up in Southeast Asian countries such that the legacy of camp town prostitution for U.S. soldiers (e.g. infrastructure, practices, norms) has become sex tourism targeting foreigners who are coming from North America and Europe and who are primarily white male tourists benefiting from the highly favorable exchange rate. Cynthia Enloe’s scholarship as well as documentaries such as _Bangkok Girl_ are good background resources, as well as the work of activist organizations like Polaris and 3G that attempt to find local solutions to prosecute tourists seeking underage girls and to stop human trafficking. In fact, human trafficking is THE MOST lucrative illegal business and outstrips drugs in terms of estimated revenue, and sadly, *all men* participate in this horrible crime that targets women and children.

    I disagree with all of you that Dr. Hubinette is playing victim. He powerfully speaks to realities that as white men you might not be aware of because you are not Asian women. While some of the wording, as he readily admits, is awkward, the ideas are valid and deeply resonate with what I live through. But beyond semantics, I continue to wonder:

    What can white men do to stop racism and to support interracial understanding in their partnerships with Asian women for the sake of love?

    • Meng

      Jennifer–although I still disagree with your conclusions, you make some solid points and I understand your view much more clearly now. Your opinions are completely valid and you’re actually pretty brave to be coming back on this forum when you know it is likely to elicit some animosity. Thanks for coming here without malice and just defending rather than accusing, but mostly thanks for not losing your cool.

  • http://www.magnoliaarts.com ZhuBaJie

    Well, as this horse lies probably dying from being flailed, I just want to say that I’m impressed by the level of the discussion and the general civility in which it has been conducted. Thanks especially to Jennifer for helping keep the discussion on ideas and not on attacking the article author in a personal way.

    I stand by my original statement that the paper lacks scholarly value due to internal deficiencies rather than the nature of its conclusions. Thanks to those who went beyond that and actually discussed ideas and concepts inspired by the paper. That’s the goal of scholarship, to inspire discussion — even if the scholarship is itself highly flawed.

    “Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people.” — Eleanor Roosevelt

  • Hawk

    @Jennifer,

    Thanks for the additional resources. I’ve tried to learn what I could of the issue but I lack even second hand observation of the issues.

    Every so often I come across an issue where the respective world views of different cultures are so profoundly different that even my best efforts to bridge the gap and understand falls short.

    This is what may be happening here.

    To clarify, I do not deny what is going on with human trafficking or prostitution. Neither do I believe that I assign it any less importance than it has. I’ve seen documentaries on the issue, most specifically Thailand and Cambodia. I’ve read what I could. I agree that it’s primarily white men taking advantage of economic disparity in such areas. I agree with all of this.

    The disconnect is that I cannot see these issues being caused by yellow fever. I can more likely see the issues being a minor cause of yellow fever. My problem is the simple inversion of cause and effect that I believe characterizes his thesis.

    Prostitution has been illegal in Thailand since 1960. If the authorities address their anti-trafficking statutes with the same determination with which they’ve addressed their prostitution laws I don’t see the issue changing anytime soon. I see his thesis encouraging a “helpless victim” mentality simply because he assigns no responsibility to profiteers on the supply side of the market.

    Historically, prohibitions of anything are doomed. To the extent they might succeed that success has universally been associated with control of the supply side. It doesn’t matter if we’re talking drugs, alcohol, weapons, gambling or prostitution – the customers will always be there. The demon Adam Smith will always provide supply where there is demand. To attempt to circumvent market dynamics, those in authority have to act to reduce supply. The fact is that those in authority are doing a breathtakingly poor job of it – and they consist, in large part, of Asian males. Hence I believe the good doctor is failing to see the forest as it’s view is blocked by the trees.

    Nevertheless, I would like to thank you for your patience in trying to get the concepts across to me.

  • http://www.lovelovechina.com Crystal

    I’d like to second ZhuBaJie’s and Hawk’s comments and thank Jennifer for patiently explaining her position.

    For myself, I took down the notes to look for materials on trafficking and prostitution – I think it will be an interesting topic.

  • ziccawei

    Isn’t there a very distinct difference between Korean and Chinese thinking about white men stealing their women?

    I have never been to Korea but those that have have told me that Korean men can be quite demonstrative about their feelings about white man & Korean woman relationships.

    Same in Japan.

    In China I have never witnessed this, heard of it happening or been subjected to that kind of attack myself.

  • jshomi

    I don’t think this antipathy for white men linking up with Asian women is just a Korean, WWII, or foreign base thing. I was married to a Japanese American woman and got a lot of flack from her family, who were Americans and lived in Los Angeles. They referred to me as “boy” and even “white trash.”

    Pedophelia or no pedophilia, I like Madame Butterfly and South Pacific. They are very romantic stories. I like my Chinese wife, too. Dr. Hubinette and other Koreans who don’t approve of such things need to get a life. As Rogers and Hammerstein put it in their lyrics for Bali Hai:

    If you try you’ll find me
    Where the sky meets the sea
    Here am I your special island
    Come to me, come to me
    Bali H’ai, Bali H’ai, Bali Hai ..

  • Moroes

    Deep down we enjoy exploitation.

    -Europeans practically colonized the world. Kahn almost would have conquered the world. Japan wanted to colonize the whole of Asia in WW2.

    -Going for seafood and enjoying it not caring about whether or not seafood will be extinct soon. Especially Blue Fin Tuna. Yum Yum!

    -Eating meat. Hey we are exploiting animals to get this much meat to feed everyone! So much we make animals into graded foods like Wagyu beef.

    -Diamonds and handbags. Blood Diamond the movie anyone? And that Hermes handbag someone killed a reptile to make that. I bet it must be a rare species.

    -Americans and Canadians are living on exploited land. I mean who cares about the natives right? Let them enjoy their new found exploited land!

    -Free mp3s to download. What an exploitation to the music inductry and the whole world is downloading.

    The point is you can look down on white guys exploiting Asian women. But in the end. Everyone is exploiting something. Like China conquering the majority of South China Sea, when clearly some of that that sea is closer to SE Asian nations.

    But of course in this new civil world. We try to exploit in a civil manner. I’m not saying its right or wrong. Some exploitations are clearly wrong like human trafficking. But I’m just pointing out we are species that just exploits anything we can exploit!

  • GentleGiant

    I do not understands why people feel the need to make such long replies; this guys paper does not deserve more than a single, four letter reply…..

    TWAT!!!

  • China Shark Mike

    Wow! Never saw a thread build so quickly before. First off I found the article to be completely rambling and incoherant at points. Going off on tangents from unrelated historical symptons of bygone years. So human beings don’t change or evolve, we supposedly don’t learn from past disgressions. The paper was a completely subjective article from someone who had an agenda, an ax to grind so to speak. I’ve encountered anti-white racism as far back as 1993 while living in Japan. I simply had my arm draped across a girl’s shoulder in a public park. China the same situation, got hit in the face and head with a bottle drinking with some locals. The paper could have been valid if he approached the pros as well as the cons. The fact that is was not accepted by the university shows how truly unacceptable it was. Inferring paedophilism and human trafficking was the result of causasions is just absurd. It wreaks of insercurities and inferiority complex by the write. His defense mechanism for the world not recognizing his true intellectual ability. Jennifer, I can emphathize with some of the nonsense you might experience yet fail to see while your own husband doesn’t man up for you in these situations. The world is what it is. Expoitation is not driven by the white race. Do a little more research and you find oud prostition is much more open and appcepted in Asian countries because the currupt police and government want it to flourish hence to collect the bribe money. This guy is the quitessential hate monger looking to cause discourse wherever people will listen. Propoganga and rhetoric in it’s most childish and ludicrous forms. Scary part is that he is recognized as the academia. Sounds like he starting a movement to try to prevent white men the opportunity to pursue the their godgiving right to chose their soulmate. White people simply had advantages in life, that is no reason to chastise them an accuse the of the most heinus crimes perpetuate upon Asian women. Sour grapes is what to comes to mind. Scorned so will show the world the true inequidties {spelling} in life, Simply the man does not represent mondern acdemia but a man expressing his opinions or his theories that are quite humoursly yet deeply disturbing. Cherry picking segments of published works and stringing them incohortently to try to come to a cogent point with nevery arrives, :mrgreen:

  • Bored in Melbourne

    Rather than ‘playing the man’ as many seem to be doing I would like to address huge flaws in the case:

    1) The largest proportion of Asian women trafficked for prostitution are done so by and for other Asians. It is often the case that they end up being the women servicing western men, but Asian origin prostitutes are most likely being moved through Asian channels, this disgraceful reality need to be accepted. In my own city a recent huge investigation into sex trade and illegal brothel identified a number of Chinese women pushing other Asian women (often Thai and Korean) into sexual slavery. The shocking reality is it was women doing this to other women.

    2) Sure I am also very uncomfortable with the dirty old men with a young girl situations, HOWEVER these girls doing it willingly, and the reason they are happy and comfortable to do so is the the precedent is set by Asian Men! The largest pool of relationships in Asia with a massive age gap is the older Asian man with a hot young girl. It is the Asian culture that worships youth and beauty. If this was not accepted in Asian thinking the girls would feel unhappy to be in that situation and would avoid it even when it resulted in a hug lift in their standard of life, and life status.

    • Blue Eyes Blonde Hair

      that’s exactly it!

      great post

      people forget that Mao had a thing for virgin peasant girls! – and just think, he’d even rinse his mouth with tea before bumping uglys!

  • China Shark Mike

    One word scapegoat epitomizes his paper. Blame the white man for all your problems in life. Ha :mrgreen:

  • pasquinada

    Note, Jennifer was a collaborating write with Tobias Hubinette on several past occasions.

    • 3jay

      Thanks for pointing that out. It appears Jennifer is also a published poet and a Ph.D. in Lit, which explains the accomplished writing style. Kudos for that, Jennifer, even though I admit to being diametrically opposed to the views expressed by Mr Hübinette and – indeed – by yourself. Thanks for your valuable contributions to this discussion, though.

      • Blue Eyes Blonde Hair

        actually, jennifer is a shitty writer

        hey, for all the anger directed towards white men for dating “YOUR” women (haha try calling a white woman “OUR” women.. ho ho that would not go over well)

        why is it that Chinese women specifically are so quick to give themselves an English name?

        and why do they always pick the worst typical American names?? Jennifer, Kristy, (or any name that starts with a “K”) etc. I even saw a chinese girl named Princess. why not a german name or a French name? why not just stick with your original names but translate them to english? “Comfortable Apple” and “Icy Reflection” etc. etc.

        fuck.. we’re giving our empire to this insecure lot?? lol

  • Sysiphus

    From Jennifer: “from Southeast Asian women trafficked into Korea to provide sex to U.S. soldiers stationed at 60-year old camp towns to the Asian fetishes that fuel other forms of human trafficking seeking pliable”

    Respectfully, this is a bunch of rubbish. So much of the sex trafficking in Asia is built around finding SE Asian women for ASIAN men. Witness the many such establishments in Tokyo and Seoul that attest to this. To try to blame this problem solely on white men is ridiculous.

  • Blue Eyes Blonde Hair

    they’re racists, what do you expect?

    they will always find someone to blame for their own problems, as long as it doesn’t require a lengthy look in the mirror, they can feed their own myth of national exceptionalism.

  • GentleGiant

    This is my 3rd attempt at posting this, anyone else having problems?? The website crashed on me repeatedly yesterday.

    Re the statement that the Japanese are to blame for the trafficking of Korean women into prostitution.

    It is well established that “concubines” of various racial types including Korean were carried by the Chinese fleets in the 1400′s to service dignitaries, ambassadors and other influential people carried to and from China; prostitution has always been an established and mostly honourable profession in SE Asian culture.

    If Jennifer IS linked to the author, then it is very disingenuous to be posting a defence of his work without telling the other users about that connection.

    I write a lot more yesterday, but lost the lot when the website crashed; I cant be arsed to write it all again.

    Reasons a man might want a SE Asian hooker over a local hooker.

    They tend to be cleaner.
    They tend to be less skanky to look at.
    They are an awful lot cheaper.

    The third is the clincher, when a girl costs about the same as a pint back home, where do you think they will go for a “bit of the other” when planning a holiday??

    I am not condoning it, and it has nothing to do with paedophilic tendencies in most men; although there are a tiny number who travel out there specifically because, historically, it has been easy and relatively safe to get any age of bed warmer you want. However, as recent news reports have shown, the local authorities are finally acting to stop it from happening.

    I have dated English, Welsh, Czech, Russian, Dutch, Kyrgyz, Nigerian, and Chinese, I have dated Reds, Brunettes, Blondes and Browns from 5`2″ to 6` tall; the Chinese girls win because they dont want to try and drunk me under the table or start a punch up in the local pup, and they are more interested in me as a person than as a walking wallet.

    • ziccawei

      Come to Shanghai. Girls here here have pet names for their boyfriends like ‘ATM’, ‘Bank’, ‘Trust Fund’, etc.

  • a funny white guy

    Thanks for opening my mind, guys!

    Now I know that there is no such thing as an Asian fetish. It’s only that Asian women are cleaner (almost child-like).

    It’s OK to wrap your arm around an Asian woman in Asia, it’s like being naked on the beach: acceptable because I make the rules.

    And it’s OK to have an Asian hooker, because
    - the Chinese are doing it too, since the 1400s, including Mao.
    - it’s good for the economy, even female Asian traffickers benefit from it.
    - Asian hookers like it, because it’s part of their culture.

    Although I might be the only white guy going to an Asian brothel, because there are non around my military bases.

    Academics researching this topic are all collaborators and not to be trusted. We can turn their words around until we are offended and then reject the topic. I told my dentists the same thing, when they all tried to blame bad teeth on sweets.

    Thanks again for your amusing eye-opening thoughts.

    • Blue Eyes Blonde Hair

      lol you completely missed the point

      white men are being demonized for dating asian women

      but what about black men who date white women?

      or .. what about black men dating asian women??

      i’m sorry your penis is so small.

  • GentleGiant

    Since most of the children I work with are rarely clean, and certainly do not look on hygiene as a vital part of their daily lives I will take the post as sarcastic.

    To be called an Academic, you have to adhere to academic rules and standards; so far I havent read anything in this thread that looks even vaguely academic.

    I am not condoning it, but it is widely said that prostitution is the worlds oldest profession, blaming it on white people, then blaming it on the Japanese when you get called over the first claim is lazy and dishonest.
    The Japanese being the next target was not a surprise, many SE Asians still feel the same way about the Japs as 1940′s Brits felt about the Krauts, and 1950′s Yanks felt about the Ruskies; I dont think a single day went by on my last visit to China where there wasnt a Jap bashing war film showing on at least one of the TV channels.

    Personally, I dont diss blokes with smaller willys, although I do feel sorry for guys with outsized ones; unless you plan a career as a male porn star, they tend to cause more problems than they are worth

    I took my black GF to a nightclub full of black men and their white GFs once; we got tons of abuse directed at us, yet none of them seemed to have a problem with dating a white girl…….

  • http://www.matthewsawtell.com Matthew A. Sawtell

    Wow, all that wind… and this guy completely IGNORED the history of Japanese immigration into South America, and the relations of Brazilian-Japanese in Post Boom Japan?

    Sorry Crystal, this was not a paper – it was a rant, an old rant I have seen more than a few times in places like the China Daily Forums.

    A real research paper actually cites actual research to back a researcher’s conclusions.

  • ThomasR

    haha, this “paper” certainly has some problems, most of which have been pointed out by others (3jay, Nick, Teacher in China, etc.). I could definitely see a thesis positing a link of some kind between some men’s attraction to Asian women and pedophilia, but he does one of the worst jobs of defending his position that I have ever read. Let’s all hope that it was a proposal for research and not a finished product.

    Jennifer, by contrast, does a decent job of defending her position. My issue with Jennifer is that her argument and that of Hubinette are clearly very different, and I’m not sure whether she recognizes this.

    Really intriguing discussion in the comments.

  • haha no

    well, i read the paper, and 80% of the comments (before getting tired)

    I agree with allot of the comments and my comment will be nothing special.

    The use of the pedophilia avenue, was in my opinion, overly aggressive and could cause nothing but trouble.

    While the east asian women do look younger than their age, to suggest they look under 18 for many, many years is idiotic. generaly at 23 years old they look 20ish, then stay looking around 20-30 ish for 40 odd years (then over night go from looking like a 30 year old to looking like a 104 year old with nothing in-between) (no offense intended Crystal :twisted: :lol: )

    In my view, i believe that most western men are attracted to east asian women for the following reasons:
    1) asian women are on the whole, not as agressive as western women (by this i mean they dont speak like someone for south east london, who only talks about who they know and what they can have ‘done’ to you)(i had a date like that once, bloody terrible, the only good side was that i won 25 pounds on a fruit machine).

    2) Asian women are more keen to learn things they dont understand (by this i mean anything from languages to work, my wife will happily watch me sourcing for things off the internet then take over and spend the hours needed to find deals and business opportunity)

    3) (i have written this last part a few times now as i couldnt get it worded how i wanted it worded, still not great but bear with me)

    In the west, many women are binge drinking, overly aggressive, complaining, lazy, spoilt, fat women. (well at least the ones in my age group (22-27)

    in the east, women tend to be,,, well, not any of the above, although that being said, the subculture of little empresses and little emperors is making finding a good partner much more difficult. the last thing you want is to date someone who only thinks about them selves and how everything should be given to them.
    when they dont get what they want,, cry cry cry, thats not just the adults, but also the children :lol:

    now iv gone off topic so, bye bye all

  • Linda

    `I think it’s because Asian women are…`
    ‘I think White men…’

    Okay you know what? Stop right there because your comment is already irrelevant.
    You cannot tar an entire ethnicity with the same brush, so please just stop.

    • Zvi

      Linda, I agree with you, however I think there is some politically incorrect wisdom to the notion that ethnic boundaries follow very closely with cultural, linguistic, and in many cases even national boundaries. Most of the time, the easiest characteristics to notice are ethnicity. If a person fails to discriminate (in the classic sense of the word), then they are no more intelligent than a tree or a roof tile. With that in mind, consider some of the preconceived notions that you have about any given ethnic, cultural, language, or national group and think of how close to the mark they are, and how often. A person with a very broad exposure to cultures and languages will inevitably paint any group with a particular pallet, and it’s not wrong to do so–to the contrary, it is natural, human, and wise. While it is popular to rail against anyone who makes observations based on ethnicity, any of these modes of delineation will yield powerful analytical tools and open you to observations that you could not otherwise make. In essence, it is like a language’s influence on our thoughts. That is, if you lack the vocabulary to express a concept, it is very difficult, and in some cases even impossible to grasp the concept. In the case of ethnicities, it is impossible to understand our differences if we refuse to acknowledge them. Having differences that we refuse to acknowledge is a treacherous affair, and manifests itself in racism and divisiveness. So in short, one should absolutely have thoughts that follow the pattern “Asian women are…” and “White men are…”, what really counts is what follows the ellipses. And of course, if you know the Asian woman or White man personally, then obviously you should have more personalized impressions.

  • John Vico

    “There is thus no coincidence that this type of relationship almost always follows the pattern ‘yellow girls – white elder men’….The Asian woman is not only feminized but also infantilized, and thus converted by the Western men to a pedophilic fetish – that is, an object that can be worshipped, and provide the satisfaction of repressed desires.”

    I don’t wholly disagree with the writer, but this is, above all, an ideological attack that seeks to recruit the extremely serious question of pedophilia and the angry, disgusted emotions it arouses into the ranks of an attack on imperialistic/Western civilization. He takes the cliche of the “yellow girl – white elder man” and identifies its source in Western imperialism, not in the dynamics of Asian culture at all. If you were to remove the racial elements from this dyad, you would be left with a “girl-man” relationship which is a hallmark of traditional Asian society, with the emphasis on traditional. The same could be said for identifying an economic basis to these relationships.

    I have no doubt that certain Western men–fine, white men–are attracted to Asian women due to some sense that there is a youthful or innocent or dependent or more natural or pliant aspect to them, that their perceptions of Asian women are in some sense or another stereotypical and demeaning, but to what degree is this factor the critical one? I am skeptical that it is, especially if one is to take it to the extreme of a pedophilic tendency. (Then again, one wonders about the West’s tendency to hyper-sexualize youth and yet simultaneously promote an ever stronger taboo about pedophilia). I would submit that the critical factor is that Western men, whatever their motivation, are being drafted into a very long tradition of subjugating women that is no mere by-product of Western civilization.

    At the end of the day, I am not sure this paper should be taken very seriously. Mixing racism, imperialism, pedophilia, sexual exploitation, etc is a toxic brew that is bound to be more controversial than enlightening. What, for example, is the difference between Western sex tourism and Japanese or Korean or South Asian or Arab sex tourism/exploitation in East Asia? Moreover, even supposing that the writer were on to something, what is the way out? What is it that he proposes anybody do? It is a problem that permits no solutions but justifies blind fury against a whole race (whites). Why not focus on the way men and women in general interact with and perceive each other? What does introducing race and civilizational imperialism really add to the subject?

    I feel sorry for the writer and whatever put him in this frame of mind. I can only imagine.

    • A Chinese Female

      Thanks. This probably is one of the most interesting comments on this thread.

      I’d agree that Mr. Hubinette seems having entered an indefensible fallacy by attributing Asian female-white male relationships to the latter’s paedophilic fetish. I also agree, it’s difficult to put a finger on the amalgam of race, western imperialism, sexual exploitation – these are crucial elements that he’s been taking a no small risk trying to articulate together, only to obfuscate the theme by resorting to a horrendous accusation. I however think you might be jumping the gun way too earlier by discarding the factors of race and western imperialism, especially the former, from the subject of interracial relationships.

      The most vehement criticism on Mr. Hubinette’s thesis – which many a western male commenter on this thread has been arguing forcefully – is that the Asian agents involved in the sexual exploitation of Asian women are no less active, thus no less sinful than their western counterparts, so that the responsibilities, if not completely shoved towards, then at least gotten half split between the involved white males with the involved Asians. Race and western imperialism, along this line of discourse, are rendered an omissible addendum, and the whole essay reduced to a justification of “blind fury” towards the white race.

      I don’t wholly disagree, yet I reckon this set of arguments, however eloquently constructed, keeps missing the point. The issue is not the prostitution and sex trafficking in Asia per se – rather, it is white males’ participation in these phenomena that being used as a vehicle of analysis that invokes a grand theme – the expansion of western civilization (not always so peaceful or progressive, this is very subtly put, mind you) and the construction of today’s world, more importantly, people’s perceptions of themselves and “others”. Specifically, the hangover of imperialist influence and the pervasive white racial prestige do have impacts on the mechanism of interracial relationships. The white male-Asian female relationships, indeed symbolising a POWER struggle, as Jennifer has argued, however not between the particular man and woman. But in the sense that, this dyad, depending on interpretations, may have served an agency in the power struggle between races and societies, as it pronounces a gender/race dynamic that seen as perpetuating the current not-completely-satisfying power structure where specific races, societies or countries, even continents find themselves in. On the flip side of the coin, you see wealthy Asain men go gaga over white prostitutes/escorts, you see Asian pick-up artists targeting blondes, etc. etc.

      Theoretically, these big theories are simply irrelevant nonsense to determine who we find attractive. In a real life sense, they once in a while are translated into brutal stereotypes and presumptions imposed on specific individuals. In the white male-Asian female relationships, challenges may come from two fronts:

      For the white males, the challenge is they need to acknowledge that they inhabit the structural positions that perpetuate the inequalities between races and societies; they need to acknowledge that white racial prestige as a structural fact that they take part – which might serve an initiation to address these inequalities. If they encounter any racist treatment, chances are, that is a reverse one, a presumption that this particular man has benefited from certain prestige, when this particular man himself feels he has nothing to do with it and might have not even realized this is a form of racism. Jennifer has given a very good illustration as to how her husband missed the point in the compliment on her being a “quiet Asian wife”. In this light, I see the question that she presented to commenters on this thread a completely legitimate one – “What can white men do to stop racism and to support interracial understanding in their partnerships with Asian women for the sake of love?”.

      For the Asian females, they deal with worse situations, exactly as Jennifer has said, “you cannot understand what an Asian female (in this situation) feel because you are not one.” My current conclusion based on personal experience is, as a Chinese/Asian female, you just can’t win! I talked about Confucian values, “yeah, I heard, Chinese women are raised in that different way, right? But you know it’s not gonna work the same way here.” (smirk). I had a crush on a Canadian classmate, “Canadian? Chinese Canadian?” Nah. “Hahha, you know you look like that kind of girl.” What kind? “Dating foreigner kind.” (smirk) I found a particular Jew man attractive. “You definitely should!! They have a thing for Asian trophy wife.” (smirk) Sure, most of these were banters between friends – male/female/Chinese/foreign. But there are times they came from vicious intentions that aimed to put me down. Just fight back, no second thoughts. The funny banters, are no less bad but harder to deal with, because they are from people meant no harm but unconsciously harbour those stereotypes and attitudes attached to Asian/Asian females towards me. I doubt accusing them being socially/cullturally backwards in the face would help.

      You asked the very right question, “What does introducing race and civilizational imperialism really add to the subject?” My answer is race and civilizational imperialism are the hidden theme that cries out for scrutiny. They not only stay relevant, but race, in particular, as an issue is not likely to disappear anytime soon. More discussions do no harm, rather than shying away from it, a right on the head dissection of the topic could be a good step to follow.

      Last,

      “Why not focus on the way men and women in general interact with and perceive each other?” – I love the idea, too. It’s beautiful. Just that, Eden has been forever lost, and the Rapture day not on the horizon yet, the day that all the exogenous factors could be discarded to give way to a general women-men relation and interaction, remains forthcoming but will never come.

      Thanks for the thoughtful comment again. With kind regards.

  • aaron

    I wonder what kind of perspective people like Hubinette would have on the widespread phenomenon of white Russian women working as prostitutes in Japan – fetish, expression of cultural dominance or just business? I’ve heard from other foreigners that these women were only available for Japanese men and that Westerners were not allowed into their establishments.

    This whole argument about “white men as pedophiles” is really more of a weapon yielded by disadvantaged types who seek a little revenge against a dominant group. What percentage of white men who date/marry Asian women are confirmed pedophiles? Hubinette needs to do some real research or else just become a historian of colonial oppression.

  • Annexian

    What makes them attractive (besides being so cute) is that men want to be MEN. We’ve had a sickening “Social Engineering” going on for decades to remove the dominance of the “White Male”. Women are trained to be aggressive, hurtful, exploitative but then quickly run to call the police if they get the smack-down they deserve for being b-tches. On the other hand we got cultures where women are “Worthless females” and treated like sh-t least of which is being forced/sold into s-xual slavery…

    Nothing’s more attractive to a man than a “Damsel in Distress” that our internal “Barbarian” wants to carry off. Really, ever see the movie “Conan the Barbarian” with the Governator Arnie? Saw it in grade school, one of my fav scenes is early in the movie when he’s a gladiator they kick a cute Asian woman into his cell and he’s just “Woman! Woooman!” and goes over to mount her, though of course he’s nice and gentle as the poor lass is scared stiff being towered over by this muscled behemoth.

    I admit that’s what I want to do soon. Really. Make sure to keep my muscles up, get a cute asian lady be it from an escort service or a slave girl from a “human trafficking” operation and dress her up like a slave girl from Sword and Sorcery and me like a barbarian and screw her cute brains out. Though personally I like looks more like Japan’s “Ganguro” girls. I’ll have to get a more pacific one or shove her in a tanning booth for a while first… I mean, if black men can lust after white women, fine, but let it work both ways…

    Now, some of you are screaming “Barbarian! Foreign Devil!” and perhaps you are right… I make no apologies there’s plenty of big western “Liberated” woman would love a cute chinaman for a bed toy too and they scream we men are pervs…

    But a child…nuts…

    And I mean “Pre-pubescent” by that definition…

    Nope. Don’t care about the witch hunt laws that have nothing to do with protecting children and everything to do with hating men and pretending the police do something when they ignore massive crime by gangsters and banksters etc. But, oriental or occidental, kids are kids. Even a tiny 70lb ultra petite oriental woman is quite different from a larger, sluttier 14 year old European “Tween”.

    As a final note, when you breed them together a white man and an oriental woman make a pretty awesome person. You tend to get men who can become giant behemoth musclemen but still ace every test. And the women get smart and pretty also. We’ve been bred by our environments in seperate directions, but both directions have reached a pinnacle. The re-crossing brings out the best without the less desirable recessive parts.

  • Navnit

    I want to know the meaning of “Yellow Fever”

  • http://www.davidswills.com DW

    This was an interesting read… I have to say that his essay seems like absolute crap, but it’s an interesting perspective. Probably he’s right about some men, but he’s falling into a very common trap of writing off a whole race. I personally find his views a little offensive as a white male with a (n older) Asian wife. I like to think that we’d have gotten married regardless of race… but what do I know, I’m just a dumb white guy.

    His sentiments are very common here in Asia – particularly Korea. There seems to be a view that “foreigners” are “stealing” “their” women. Very sad. But all societies are, unfortunately, possessive of “their” women. Hopefully Asia is due for a change.

  • Red Faction Gorilla

    ATTENTION ASIAPHILES!!!
    Read below:
    I was once like yourself, but I cannot cure you. It takes a person training their own mind in order to change your preference.
    Instead, I will help you another way.
    Here is a list of tips on how to HIDE your asiaphilia from an asian woman you are attempting to court:
    1. Wear sunglasses.
    The main way asian women can tell a man is an asiaphile by the look in his eyes, and a person can tell a lot about a person just by looking in the other persons eyes (their mood, their attitude, etc.)
    2. Make sure you are hygienic.
    This is a given for in any situation with a woman. Asiaphiles as asians call you, and once called me, are identified by a certain disgusting thing about them. A lot of asians have made the observation that a lot of asiaphiles dont shower, and some dont shave, and some dont do either. Make sure you are shaven and showered in the mornings. Make sure to get those hair cuts every now and then.
    3. Work on your social skills.
    Social awkwardness can come off bad. In fact, it almost always does. Make sure you are not nervous when talking to one. Try not to stutter, or say “um” too much.
    4. Talk to her like any woman of your own race.
    Not all of them are foreighn, so dont try to talk to them in some random asian language. And dont speak slowly either.
    When attempting to make conversation, dont ask her where she is from, or about her culture, and dont talk endlessly about how great you think asian culture is. Talk to her like a woman of your own race.
    5. Dont be racist.
    This should be a given, but dont talk about asian steotypes, or make fun of asians, or say that asian men are inferior to her face. try to be racially sensitive.If you seem racist, then she may suspect you are an asiaphile.
    6. Respect her like any other woman of your own race.
    If you have nor respect for women, then I cant help you.

    In other words, try your best to hide your asian fetish, and good luck.

  • China Shark Mike

    Red Faction your words show your true ignorance. Phile is a negative label so try to think before you type because you seem ill informed at best. People have a right to prefer any race without being stigmitized. There are a lot out there with a fetishism towards Asians but that doesn’t give you the right to broadstroke all men in general. I get it you were trying to be clever yet proved only one thing and that was to stir up more contra :cool: versary.

  • sfphoto

    You guys don’t get it, do you?

    Dr. Tobias Hübinette is not saying that all White Men who enters into a romantic/sexual relationship with Asian Women are actual pedophiles; what he is saying is quite simple: that what drives White Men to go after Asian Women is not romantic love but a sexual fetish called (Orientalist) pedophilia — a kind of “gook” love — if you will. I suggest the White Losers posting on this website claiming otherwise do their homework first — Madama Butterfly, Miss Saigon, the World of Suzie Wong — ad nauseum.

    To use an analogy, let me cite the Spanish Conquest of the New World — which is nothing more than the genocidal rape of the Americas — as illustrative of this thesis. What you have today are John Smiths looking for their [Oriental] Pocahontas but the setting is in East Asia not Latin America. That is to say — the particular interracial coupling of White Men and Asian Women — has nothing to do with romantic love but everything to do with power and violence — from “gook-rapist” to “gook-lover”.

    Simple, isn’t it?

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_KO2DTSUS5ARDVMCVWSQ2RFUWKU A S

      let me say that men involved with other men are not necessarily wanting young boys either. however that is something that the gay community has had to deal with. dr dumbass probably thinks that asian men involved with non asian men are also some sort of perverts.  fuck this guy

  • haha no

    you know what, i just read a email from someone here about Pocahontas and shite, but while i have always been good on these forms (some of the few i have been good on) to mr writer, Fuck you.
    im 25, im with a 23 year old chinese girl, we are married with a baby (almost 1 year old) for you to say its Pocahontas type fetish is bang out of line!!!!!

    i would say you and a few country’s to north, head on back to thailand and enjoy, but when you are ready for china (if) then come back up.
    otherwise, you may as well fuck right off and be the same single nationality race that you come from (which will be somewhere from africa as the only people who wnat to go there are the same people who what to rape it dry, but in retrospects, i have some good african mates, but fuck all leeches mates. so you may as well FUCK RIGHT OFF now,
    you gotta wish you happened to be in china…… but if you end up here and i happen to come accross you, there is only one thing i would say “fuck off you wanker”
    and i would think my wife would agree

  • GentleGiant

    So “Dr” Twat isnt saying it, but you are??

    Trolling because you are bored and dont have the brains to find anything more interesting to do??

    My Chinese wife (as of Friday),is 5ft3″, or UK average height for a woman; so I have just the same height difference as many of the UK/European girlfriends I have had; and her light golden skin is not much different from the healthy tan a woman working out doors in the UK would have.

    Your post and the Twat “Dr” rant just smell of sour grapes.

  • http://wanderingamericantravelblog.wordpress.com/ WanderingAmerican

    Someone who trolls anonymously isn’t worthy of respect or attention, fellas.

  • http://blog.sina.com.cn/woaibabamamabaobao1314 Elijah

    I got bored of his rant after the first sentence. So many logical fallacies and total denial of facts and statistics it’s impossible to reply.

    Like WA said, unworthy troll is unworthy.

  • princenasir

    I tried reading through all of the comments, but the whining got old by the 50th post.

    As Jennifer mentioned, white privilege does exist. It continues to persist today. To the gentleman who said he would give up his white privilege if people of color repay him for all of the modern advances that western countries have made available– trust me dog, you’re not ready for the psychological trauma.

    Is this paper weak in terms of an academic paper proving the writer’s point? Sure, but that’s been said plenty of times. I don’t think it was such a good idea to use literary references from yesteryear to make a point that would hold up today. Maybe evoking images of anime girls in school uniforms would have better proved his point. When I was in the Navy, there was always at least one guy telling me his fantasy of smashing a Japanese school girl.

    I’m guessing most of the white males responding to this are not American? I say that because during slavery times it was common for the masters to have relations with their black female (and in some cases the male) slaves. The mixed females who came as a result of these “unions” were often treated better by both whites and blacks. This has resulted in what we call being “color struck” which persists in the black community even to this day.

    Now I say all of this because for me to say that any black female-white male union today is as a result of white slavemasters exercising power over their black slaves is completely ridiculous. This is a different day and age.

    He compares white male/asian female relationships to black male/white female relationships which is not the same. Black men pursued white women in some cases as a response to what they witnessed occurring between slavemasters and black women. Other times it was simply because the white women were exotic. I mean haven’t you ever wanted to try something different? I should also mention that other times these people were simply IN LOVE and those other causes had nothing to do with these unions.

    What this paper tries to prove is the same thing other papers looking at white male/women of color relationships tries to do, but none of them ever successfully prove their point. My close friend (a black female) married a wealthy english businessman. She’s not a gold digger, and he does not have some innate desire to conquer the African-American female. In all honesty, he likes big butts (and he cannot lie), so he got with an Ivy league educated woman with the biggest butt he could find.

    Another thing he fails to bring up– what about non-white western men who like Asian women?

  • Antibeast

    I think princnair hit the nail on the head with this one: “white privilege does exist. It continues to persist today”. Any white male/non-white female relationship is or should be viewed in this context. There are of course white blokes who can disclaim such “white privilege” and are truly looking for the warm, gracious and feminine qualities that Asian women are purported to have and which Western women have forsaken. For instance, I can cite the case of the American servicemen who defected to North Korea during the Korean War and intermarried with North Korean women as an example of white men giving up such “white privilege”.

    However, in real life, white men will use their “white privilege” to gain access to women’s bodies whether they be Asian, Latino, Black or Native. If anything, the Western Feminist movement has made this social phenomenon worse by driving white men to turn away from white women in their own countries and to seek non-white romantic/sexual partners from non-western societies. And because of their “white privilege”, they are allowed to infantilize their non-white female partners as exotic objects to serve their sexual desires.

    Frankly, I am quite surprised by the vehement opposition to what Dr. Tobias Hubinette has to say regarding this social phenomenon. Granted, he may have overlooked the ”personal” reasons why white men turn to Asian women but that is not his duty as a scholar. There is indeed a ton of material to buttress his claims, and if I may say so, one of the posters below went out of line by using THAT four letter word…

  • Hotwildgoddess

    Think of a woman, round full figured  think of a child…flat bellied flat breasted…this of a pedo taking pleasure in an unequal power exchange…think of little asian girls and fat old men….hmmmmmmmmmmm

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_KO2DTSUS5ARDVMCVWSQ2RFUWKU A S

      think of a woman, who is jealous of someone from another race.  how petty.  perhaps she feels threatened because she doesn’t know how she can discredit another’s romantic choice.  Oh, my, call that person a pervert! that should work.

    • Mcgee_ulick

      round full figured = “I’m struggling to stay in shape”
      think of a child = “I often do, I like power over people, I am a goddess after all”
      unequal power exchange = “I am projecting”

      By the way, Hotwildgoddess, what’s your porn name?

  • http://profiles.google.com/v7910723 Verizon VX6800

    Ancient Chinese took Uighur and other captured white women as concubines, does this demonstrate some twisted perversion on the part of Chinese nobles? The same goes for Harems of Arabs, especially the Ottomans. where lighter skinned captives were prized.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Ricky-James-Moore-II/1685116178 Ricky James Moore II

    This is hilarious nonsense. Good lord, a lot of Asian women are good looking, why is this a subject of research?

  • Jorg Simonsen

    A UK documentary a few years ago explored the attraction of British males toward Asian women. When asked why they prefered these to British Western women their response was to do with unattractive qualities in Western (White) women: over independance, competitiveness and lack of respect, plus a few other complaints. These men prefered Asian girls because of their loyalty and gentle femininity. I am a white male and I too find Asian women very attractive. I also love a truly feminine white woman, though they are a little scarce it seems!!

    So. out of the window with so called paedophilic tendencies Professor!!

  • Emily

    Tobias Hubinette’s theory of interracial relations being motivated by colonialist desires crumbles with the finding that most Black-White relationships involve men of colour and White women. If colonialism were behind interracial desire, would there not be more White male/Black female relationships than vice versa?

  • Nyc926

    interesting enough.   i would like to know more about Tobias and his research/opinions.  I think he’s onto something, though.  I do believe most white men are power hungry, have low self esteem and have pedophilic tendencies.

  • RyanS

    Men of all races like young women of all other races, this is biological. Due to reasons economic, cultural, social, physical etc, and plain raw numbers, white men find they can, essentially, get more bang for their buck with Asian women. Start by envisioning a land where young white blonde girls avail themselves at the drop of a hat to visiting white tourists. Are you saying these “yellow fever” afflicted white men will NOT visit this country, instead preferring the Asian alternative? BS.

  • Radiqueyooliss

    I think white men who are attracted to Asian women have been unfairly separated and scrutinized here.

    Traditionally men have been encouraged to be attracted to youth in women. It dates back to times where interracial dating was virtually unheard of.

    Women have always responded to this accordingly, and are almost always striving to appear younger.

    Does the fact that women are encouraged to for example shave their legs, point to peadophilic tendencies?

    It seems far more convincing, that it is representative of the fact that
    women share more physical traits with children than men do, so physically speaking there is a crossover between embracing femininity and embracing youth.

    If you observe the beauty icons in the media, you will notice that they tend to display facial characteristics associated with
    children i.e. fuller cheeks, softer features, clearer skin. However, the
    fact that these same women will often have very developed curvaceous
    figures strongly suggests, that these physical traits just represent
    health and slow aging which we are predisposed to associate with
    health, certainly no signal of perverse sexual desires.

    Based on this observation, the fact that Asian women typically have very full faces, and very
    smooth skin, meaning they visably age slower, dosent mean anything other than they are pretty fortunate in this area, and some men of all races respond accordingly.

    It is worth noting that Asian culture, in particular Japanese is very embracing of
    childlike qualities in women, so that would mean that Japanese men on
    average display stronger peadophillic tendencies than other nations?

    Not really. If you watched Japanese pornography, you would notice that the women are heavily selected on the size of their breasts(Large) and nipples, more so than in western or European pornography, and they are rarely shaven in the pubic area.

    So a lack of curves in Asian women unlike their fuller faces is not desired, it is just more common than in other races.

    You see Asians are embraced for the same qualities all women are embraced for, and criticized for the same.

    From a marital perspective, I think many men including myself believe that white and black western women are
    becoming more like men, and seek Asian women because they embrace gender
    differences and roles.

  • Yellard

    Unfortunately many people have racial ideas n fantansies abt sex.

    All I can say is that yes, I am a ‘white’ with a fetish/ extreme liking for east asians. But I also have an equal fetish/ extreme liking for red heads n blacks. If I had the choice of a ‘one night’ with asian/red head/black of equal beauty, I would have to toss a coin a few times! Luckly, seldom in life will one get such a choice of equal attractiveness!

    And yes, all three types are equally attractive irrespective of history n colonialism. It’s just preference. In my case little liking for blonds.

  • Anonymous

    i think that those who into russian girls are into transsexuals and gays)

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  • 2450620381

    I am Miffy, Chinese girl who want to sexy video chat, email me 2450620381@qq.com

  • Ha Ha!

    Sounds like someone is mad over seeing all those Asian girls’ dating profiles with white men only in the first line.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Joe-Bee/100003026794918 Joe Bee

    Closet pedophiles…..and that’s the truth.

  • http://www.facebook.com/tee.kei.73 Tee Kei

    LOL all these funny pedo-bears attempting to defend their pedophilia in their posts…….

  • Carl

    Poor guy. I actually feel bad for him.