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Chinatown Women - Part I

唐人街的女人 - 第一章


Guest article by ATBOTH

Early middle-aged, younger looking than you. And hardly any arthritis. Really. Resident of the Bay Area, though formerly of somewhere in the Netherlands – living in Europe with a US passport can be an adventure. I should also mention that I am not a Red-Sea pedestrian. Make of that what you will. Author of the blog: AtTheBackOfTheHill

Chinese WomanA colleague of mine years ago dated a Cantonese woman. Once, when we were talking, he asked me what I thought of his girlfriend.
Unfortunately there is no right way of responding to such a question.

I tried to wave it off diplomatically – “she’s nice, I hope that both of you will be very happy” – but I could tell he wasn’t satisfied, though he didn’t press the matter.  Several months later they were married.

I wish I could report that indeed both of them have been very happy, but that is not how it turned out. As, at the time, happened what I suspected would happen.

You see, I knew what his future mother-in-law was like.
What I should have told him was “consider her family, what they are is what you will have to deal with, and she resembles her mother…”.

In some regards, all women end up like their mothers.

Chinatown Family Life

People learn their behaviour from their childhood environment, and Chinatown Cantonese girls are treated with greater firmness than male children, which means that much more of their personalities are formed within the family.  During most of their youth they won’t be permitted much exposure to alternative ways of acting and thinking, and any independent-mindedness will be frowned upon.

They are expected to study hard, obey their parents, and NOT be exceptional in any way. Reward is dealt out far more grudgingly than punishment: public embarrassment, savage harangues, or worse – which are euphemistically called “instruction”.

For Chinese-American daughters, accomplishment or talent is far less likely to result in praise than it would for boys – a clever woman is problematic, and may be perceived as too intelligent and individualistic to marry off. There is no virtue in showing-up her brothers, or any other man for that matter.

This situation lessens somewhat during their college years, but at that time they often still don’t enjoy the freedoms that their brothers at that age can and do take for granted. What they will take for granted is a far greater level of frustration and social restraint.

Far more than Caucasians, Cantonese parents expect to dominate their children’s lives. In consequence, Cantonese children are used to a degree of repression and parental meddling that most white people of the same age cannot begin to comprehend.

Especially if they are girls.

Another thing many Cantonese kids are used to is being compared unfavourably to someone else.  Other children are always mentioned as sterling examples of talent, scholastic ability, or obedience, and that you aren’t like them is your fault, you are lazy and no good, and you are doing it deliberately to cause unimaginable suffering to your parents, to whom you owe everything, who are so deeply ashamed of your incompetence and stupidity. All of Chinatown is saying what a bad child you are.

For young ladies, the burden of being female is compounded by a hefty dollop of shamefulness.

Chinese men are expected to be somewhat ‘adventuresome‘.  It isn’t considered quite proper (though often much admired), but it is well within the range of normal behaviour for a man to act out in certain ways. However, if a young man may be expected to calm down and start acting mature once married, a young woman in a similar situation will be regarded as irredeemable and not worth marrying.

Even worse, her misbehavior affects her siblings chances of finding a suitable mate. Given that her brothers’ sons will be infinitely more valuable to the family than she can ever be, minor disobedience from a young woman is a far more grievous sin than outright rebelliousness and delinquency in a boy.

It’s a question of different responsibilities – she leaves the family when she marries, but he acquires a mother for his parents’ grandsons.

Marriage

The best match for a child is someone with a good reputation from a family background that can be vouched for, such as the offspring of hometown connections and old friends or colleagues of the parents, who are locally well-known, respected, and entrenched within stable social circles.

The worst possible choice is a complete stranger whose family is unknown, with no relations and no local ties. Such a coupling announces that the family couldn’t manage any better, and they do not care enough to verify that person’s antecedents.

“Consider her family, what they are is what you will have to deal with, and she resembles her mother….”

After marriage, the greatest achievement of a woman in Chinatown is giving birth to sons. Correspondingly, failure to do so will be ascribed to things that she did wrong: she didn’t obey her in-laws, she was too stubborn and should have quit her job or worked closer to home, she was too friendly, and so forth. That the Y chromosome comes from the man is entirely immaterial; not giving birth to sons is manifestly her fault.

Even worse, daughters diminish a woman’s standing and suggest that she herself is defective (and, by extension, that her family is flawed).  Being born female hurts your mother and puts her parents in a bad light. This idea dominates the atmosphere in which girls grow up. Indeed, their parents may admit the illogic behind the premise, but it is ever-present in the social environment and reflected in the language.

Even if the mother and father never express the thought, other relatives will.  And the mother will be told by well-meaning friends and neighbors that if she does everything right, eats certain foods, follows various superstitious rules, and obeys her husband and her parents-in-law far more than she has, the next one will be a boy.

Given the stigma to being female – doubled if one gives birth to females – it should not be surprising that the outmarriage rate for Chinese in America is enormous, and even less surprising that it is primarily Chinese-American women who marry outside the group.

And, of course, that also is the woman’s fault.

Follow the link below to read the second part of this article…

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  • ziccawei

    Is this just about ‘Cantonese’ women or Chinese women in general? I know the culture varies slightly between north and south, but surely not that different?

  • HongBaoNaLai

    This article is a bit too biased on how all Chinatown boys have freedom and only Chinatown girls suffer.

    There’s a lot of pressure on the boys too. I mean look at the amount of Geeky Mama’s boys there are in Chinatown. Only to get married and get pussy whipped by their wives.

    Anyways if girls are not allowed to shine then why is their daddy giving them BMW/Benz to drive around. Isn’t that german car going to make guys back off. Especially those girls with a SLK.

    Anyways Chinatown girls enjoy life for all I see. They go to prestgious schools, they drive luxury cars, they got their own condos. These are Chinatown college girls who haven’t worked yet. Daddy set the daughter to new heights to raise the bar to make sure only a worthy boy would approach her.

    • Kin

      I guess it’s bias because of the theme of this blog but I agree it’s a misconception to think that Chinese boys suppose to have it better than girls. In traditional Chinese values the son is require to carry the family name and bloodline, which puts a lot of pressure and constrain on them to succeed the family. Hardly any more freedom than the girls. For a Chinese boy to marry a ‘Gweipo’ is also considered to be very shameful and unfilial. But since this is about girls I’ll leave it at that.

  • Caseyorourke

    What would be the family’s reaction if “God forbid” the daughter should fall in love wih and decide to marry a caucasian man?

    • http://wanderingamericantravelblog.blogspot.com/ WanderingAmerican

      Well just speaking for me, I’m white and my girlfriend is straight up Cantonese, and her family thinks I’m The Man.

    • HongBaoNaLai

      When you talk about Overseas Born Chinese they hardly have any problems from parents when marrying caucasians. How open yeah? NOT!!!! They will freak if you get a black partner still. Even these Hiao Qiaos are not that open even with so much exposure. Singapore and Malaysia are still like a 3 Kingdoms of Chinese, Indian, Malays divided.

      But its not all that bad either. At least races & cultures won’t get dissolved with everyone mixing each other up.

      HAHA imagine pure people are becoming extinct. China will not accept the extinction of pure Chinese. Anyways eurasians are rare in China still. That’s why I see some people staring at my face 1 foot away for like 60 secs. Trying to figure out whether my face has any Chinese genes. Its like they never expect a Chinese hybrid to be my age yet because they thought it just started to be a trend giving birth to hybrids.

    • http://www.lovelovechina.com Crystal

      And that’s exactly the question which ATBOTH answers in part 2 of this post! ;-)

  • Jay K.

    Hey I have a suggestion, stop marrying girls from guangdong, even other chinese think girls from Guangdong are ugly, and i am inclined to side with them..wait i am not inclined, i am 99% sure guangdong girls are ugly as hell, the only 1% was a girl from HK i met back in my college days, and even when she had a smokin body and a face to go along with it, i wish i could have said so also for her inner self which was nothing mroe than a decaying cavity where a money came to rest of the many guys that tried to get a piece of her ass.

    when i think of guangdong girls i think of female apes from the movie Planet of the Apes. If so you see hotties in guangdong they probly moved there from the hunan/sichuan area, or yunnan area

    • Ziccawei

      Hahahaha!! Jay K telling it how it is!

      I agree. These girls are rotten.

      I lived in Hong Kong years ago and I used to go to this coffee shop near my house. There was a model agency opposite and the models used to go into the coffee shop too. On rare occasions I would chat with these girls and NONE of them were from the south of China. All from Shanghai, Beijing, the north.

      Some Hong Kong girls look truly like the missing link.

    • Teacher in China

      I have to agree, even though it sounds really really mean-spirited. I’ve often thought that Guangdong girls have a sort of simian nature to their facial features… not so attractive at all.

  • S.K.Y

    This is very interesting to me. I never knew many Chinese friends growing up, but I did become very close friends with a Cantonese (HK family) girl in my early 20s. Her dad was actually from Beijing, her mom from Hong Kong – they met here in Canada, and she and her brother are both Canadian-born.

    She ran away from home at 14, lived in foster homes until she was about 17 then on her own since. She has had a pretty rough life, been addicted to many kinds of drugs (in and out of rehab since her teens), nearly overdosed and died, struggled with depression, has worked as a prostitute at times, and has really never been very stable. But she was always a good and decent person to everyone around her.

    I always wondered why she had so many troubles, and the last time we really hung out together a couple of years ago she told me of the way her family treated her growing up. Not entirely as described in this article, but also not entirely unlike it (her dad, who is not Cantonese, was also physically and verbally abusive). Her upbringing has basically messed up her whole life, unfortunately. I do hope she is able to find some sense of peace and happiness in her future, though. And, AFAIK, she has mostly dated white Canadians – but I wouldn’t read too much into that, there are just more of us here!

  • http://atthebackofthehill.blogspot.com/ At The Back of the Hill

    Ziccawei: Just Cantonese women, particularly the ones in SF Chinatown – though it also applies to Cantonese women in most inner-city C’towns elsewhere. There are rather wide cultural and social variations between regions in China, and even in the next province over (Fujian), things are quite different.

    HongBaoNaLai: Yes, there are geeky boys there. Dysfunctionality strikes both genders. Not really my issue, nor particularly a concern of LLC. And as far as girls with BMW/Benz – which Chinatown? Certainly not in SF Chinatown – there’s no where to park that thing, and most families living packed in a two-room walk-up don’t have a garage (they’d put the kids or grandma there if they did). If Chinese girls have their own condos, they sure as heck ain’t living in this part of SF, probably not even the Sunset or Richmond districts.
    For a large number of people living in Chinatown/Northbeach, circumstances are tight – 欏朝唔得晚.
    Perhaps you’re speaking of Philippino-Chinese or well-educated Taiwanese immigrants in Monterey Park.

    Casey O’Rourke: Often somewhere between ‘good riddance’ and ‘you never should have been born’. Though there are a few are genuinely pleased as punch that A) she’s found someone she loves, and B) he’s an interesting person with a great sense of humour (he’ll need that when dealing with some of the relatives).

    Wandering American: You are a very lucky man. Mazel tov!

    HongBaoNaLai again: Travelled in Malaysia before I learned Cantonese – whenever I tried speaking Hokkienhwee or Bahasa Melayu, they looked at me funny. Turns out they all have aunties who talked just like that.
    You might get a kick out of this post:
    http://atthebackofthehill.blogspot.com/2010/11/i-know-beng.html

    Jay K.: 嘩, 你食咗啲葡萄好酸嘅咩!

    Ziccawei: 我真想知道, 你家庭嘅人係乜地方嘅咩?

    S.K.Y: What you described is not really unusual. Both SF Chinatown and Oakland Chinatown have mental health clinics and social workers who deal with a high rates of suicidal tendencies and family issues. I hope your friend finds happiness and stability.

    • ziccawei

      Yes, my family were very generous!

      Sister Feng is from Guangdong, right?

    • http://atthebackofthehill.blogspot.com/ At The Back of the Hill

      Ziccawei: Appliedlanguage dot com is NOT a very reliable translator from Cantonese to English.
      It gave you “I really want to know, What the people in your family where generous generous baa“.
      The part BEFORE the comma is one hundred percent correct. The part after, sheer gibberish.

      我真想知道, 你家庭嘅人係乜地方嘅咩
      [Ngoh chan seung chitou, nei kaa-teng ge yan hai mat dei-fong ge me?
      = di, dik (de): possessive/descriptive particle.
      = si (shi): verb to be; is, are.
      =什麼 sammo (shenme): what.
      = maa (ma): question postfix, rhetorical function word.
      地方 remains the same in both languages – place, region, territory.
      So, in the Northern vernacular: 我真想知道, 你家庭的人是什麼地方的?

      Appliedlanguage dot com will not make much sense out of that either.

  • ziccawei

    No idea what you’re on about.

    No matter what language you put it in Canto-girls is still ugly….

    :mrgreen:

  • http://www.matthewsawtell.com Matthew A. Sawtell

    @ATBOTH WTF?! Which ‘Chinatowns’ have you been in again?

  • IMHO

    Wow, this blog is as general and biased as every Amy Tan book ever written. I think most modern day Cantonese American women are not like their mothers who were raise in the 70s and 80s. This whole marrying off thing doesn’t sound very likely. Most Chinatown girls (me included) went to colleges away from home and the chances of me marrying someone who my family already knew is pretty slim. Every girl wanted to go to the best schools they could get into and if that met moving across country that is what happened. I enjoyed my new freedom and created my own identity for myself. And if your friend and his wife didn’t end up happy and probably divorced it probably isn’t due to the fact that she was Cantonese, it is probably due to the fact that 50% of marriages don’t work out so the odds were against them anyways…IMHO

    • Caseyorourke

      I don’t know much about Cantonese girls. My wife is full Han from NE China (Yanji, Jilin). Her family absolutely loves me and are happy that we are happy.