Hi 3Jay,

No, I’m actually not Jewish. Explanation of the ‘Jewishness’ is in this post:
http://atthebackofthehill.blogspot.com/2008/04/this-bloggers-what-and-why.html.
I wrote that post for my readers, most of whom are Jewish, many of whom themselves write fascinating blogs which I read regularly – hence the rather Yeshivistic list of sites on my blog roll.

People who speak a version of Chinese as their first language will more often have a favourable take on Jews, insofar as they know who and what Jews are – most don’t really have a clue.
If they’re American born, however, their perception of Jews is more in tune with the pov of the general population (not necessarily a good thing). Native Chinese speakers tend to admire older cultures, and in the case of the Jews and Israel they generally regard it as admirable that the people still exist, and the nation has been reborn. They also usually know that Jewish writings and philosophy had a profound influence on the subsequent development of Western Civilization, so in one sense I do notice sometimes that Jewishness is regarded as a splendid survival. And probably something worth knowing more about – if it lasted that long, surely something worthwhile (meaning: USEFUL!) can be learned from it?
But in the main, Chinese are as undetailed in their knowledge of the various types of Westerners as Westerners often are about the Chinese. The only real difference is that regarding Westerners, it often seems that one stereotype fits all, without differentiation into nationalities or denominations.
We’re all kind of odd looking, with disconcerting eye colours and big facial features. And we’re just not Chinese in our manners and behaviour. We’re all just pale foreigners, they aren’t too interested in how we differ among ourselves. Sometimes you do run into very strange preconceptions, however. If a metaforical explanation of real or imagined particularities among the Caucasians makes sense it may end up being more believable (because it’s more memorable) than any real or logical explanation.

One person I know is convinced that kippot are intended to cover up the bald spot – that’s why only men wear them. Another believes that Hebrew script is written from left to right because the Jews were imitating the only other civilization around at the time. And one chap thinks Hitler was just dandy – but he has no idea what Hitler did, he just knows that Hitler is very famous – and he’s entirely unaware of Jews, has no clue what Jews are.

There are a few Chinese members of the shul I occasionally go to in Oakland, by the way.

KaiWen: Yes they are, and no they aren’t. It depends on many factors. The group I describe are SF Chinatown residents, mostly immigrants, with family members who speak Cantonese or the Toishanese dialect as their native tongue. Such an enclave is not the normal Cantonese environment. They tend to be much more conservative, culturally orthodox.
Crystal: Primarily the first generation, and the non-English speaking crowd. And even then mostly people who themselves are not very educated. Folks from the countryside are more likely to be old-fashioned in their outlook than their urban cousins, and also far more likely to feel threatened or baffled by non-Chinese society.
HongBaoNaLai: Spot on! Here in SF, it needs to be pounded into their heads. In HK and the mainland, it surrounds them on all sides and they can’t escape.
Bored in Melbourne: What you refer to as ‘Auntie bitches from Canton’ may not have seen Canton in several decades, and consequently are indeed out of touch and in denial – not fully literate in Chinese, and not able enough in English to understand the strangeness around them. But they do watch television series in Cantonese (channel 26), and there are also news programs – Cantonese at eight PM, Mandarin at ten PM. So to a certain extent it’s self-enforced denialism. Perhaps the term ‘culturally blinkered’ is best.
Many educated HK immigrants have different ideas and attitudes. But then, they are also less likely to settle in Chinatown, tending to move out as soon as they can afford it. Their children grow up in the Richmond and Sunset and are somewhat more Americanized. It isn’t until the second or third generation that one can really speak of American-Chinese instead of Chinese-American.
3Jay: Waar in België? Vergeef mij dat ik vraag, maar er is nogal een verschil tussen Joden in Antwerpen en Joden in Brussel….. en ik betwijfel dat ge ‘n Chossid zijt.
And you’re right about the Chinese in the Benelux – too much surrounded by non-Chinese to not want to assimilate really fast, whereas big Chinatowns in North-America enable isolation. There are many people in SF C’town who have been here for decades and still speak almost no English. Children go to normal schools, however, and end up learning English, and learning in English.
Public notices and government documents are often in three languages – English, Chinese, and Spanish – and election material as well as certain legal announcements and many advertisements will also be in Russian, Hmong, Vietnamese, and Tagalog. Some suburbs are similarly multi-lingual.
Yevgenij: Fascinating link. That blog is also interesting, I shall read more of it. Thanks.
Ziccawei: Not surprising. Given what people would say of her, she might not want to be seen. Doesn’t mean that there aren’t mixed couples, more likely that they exercise a great deal of discretion. And Hong Kong probably still has echoes of the old British versus local people dynamic. That discourages dating outside the fold somewhat too.

I am honestly simultaneously annoyed, offended, and baffled that I feel this way. I neither live in a traditional urban Chinatown nor am I actually Cantonese (My family immigrated from HK but are originally from Shanghai).

I really don’t want to be accusatory or anything, but you, who are ethnically not Chinese are claiming that you understand the Chinese American and Chinatown better than the people who live, breathe, and grew up there. I’m sorry, to me that’s as ridiculous as if I claimed to understand “White American” culture better than the average white person. You are right that you will never be one of the “them,” just as much as I, an ABC, will never ever be accepted as truly “American.” You only speak of what you’ve observed and heard from others, which can distort what’s really going on.

As I said before, I am not Cantonese. But, I live in an area where Cantonese culture is relatively strong and have Cantonese friends who are female and the apple of their family’s eyes. They’ve told me that their parents see their male siblings as rather useless and that they (the daughters) are the future successes of the family. Maybe this is an isolated incident, but up until now I’ve only heard of “zhong nan qing nu” being practiced overseas in Taiwanese families, and even then it’s through perpetuated stereotypes by other Chinese. I’m an only child and female, and my traditional Chinese parents treat me very well. They don’t wish that I was a boy (even going so far as scolding me when I asked) every day of their lives and they don’t treat me like I’m a second class citizen. But it may be because the Shanghainese are known for their empowered women.

Chinatown is rapidly becoming an antiquated and touristy representation of Chinese American life and culture. It’s rather annoying to me that you are perpetuating the idea that Chinatown life is the definitive Canto/Chinese American experience when it’s rapidly becoming not. You live in the Bay Area, head out to Millbrae (my Bay Area Asian friends live there) or other ethnic suburbs for a glimpse into a more rapidly evolving and diverse Chinese American landscape than what you’d find in Chinatown. I myself live in an “ethnoburb” in Los Angeles (San Gabriel to be exact. You mention Monterey Park in your previous post. Let me tell you that most of the Taiwanese immigrants have moved out of there and into the neighboring cities of Arcadia, San Marino, and San Gabriel. Monterey Park has more SE Asian residents and is more blue collar than the surrounding areas). Ethnoburbs are the new frontier in the Chinese American discourse. It’s what’s happening now.

As for dating, the only China/White hapas I know have Cantonese mothers and white fathers. And their Chinese sides don’t hate them. My Canto female friends have only dated non-Chinese, and their families don’t hate them or demonize them either. The parents may not like it, but they accept it.

Lastly, what really proves to me that you do not have as much understanding into the Chinese American mindset as you claim is your comment about American Chinese vs. Chinese American. ANY second, third, or what-have-you generation Chinese American will tell you that they want to be seen as “Chinese American,” NOT “American Chinese.” In the former, “Chinese” is the adjective that describes what kind of American you are. It says that I am AMERICAN first, NOT Chinese and thus NOT a foreigner. I don’t think I need to spell out what the latter means. Even the term ABC is contested, I use it to describe myself only when I’m talking to Chinese in China or Chinese immigrants, as they find that term easier to understand who I am.

And we took the hypen between Chinese and American out long ago. Look up the words “hyphenated American” and you’ll see what I mean.

I can’t tell you how much your making speaking English a marker of “fowardness” and “American thinking” bothers me. My parents have very limited English, and while they do hold onto a lot of traditional Chinese values, they are also very progressive and just as American as anyone else. Just because someone lives in an area where they can get by without using English does not make them any less American. And if you’ve ever taken a class on US ethnic relations, you’d know that “assimilation” has become a bad word. I’d rather die than assimilate into what is perceived as American (read: white) culture. I don’t want to lose my Chinese roots more than I already have.

So please, before you perpetuate the poor subjugated Chinese daughter stereotype that has been the bane of my existence, hear from me, a second generation Chinese American female living in one of the “New Chinatowns” of America with a B.A. in Asian American Studies: Being female and Chinese is not as bad as everyone says it is. While I do have a lot of “Asian guilt,” I’m not scarred for life.

P.S. I’m sorry for such a long post. I guess this upset me more than I realized.

Louisa thanks for your reply. ZhuBaJie, so you are saying I cannot come here because I am not a chinesegirl or a whiteguy? I have no hatred toward any ethnicities, two of my best friends are white, I was simple hinting the disgusting fact, that especially white people have this one-sided obsessions with chinese/asian culture, namely the girls, but on the other hand dislike it’s traditions and ridicule chinese/asian men. This Article and website is a good example of all this. One thing I will add to this topic is that we cantonese and asians in general have really strong bonds with family and friends, even though we don’t show it through hugs, kisses and “I love you’s”. This strong bond result in caring for what family member do, who they marry, what they eat and which career they choose. As a chinese child, either you choose to let them care for you this way, or slowly step by step show them you don’t need them to care for you in every aspect of your life. Many chinese girls let their parents care for them this way, not because they are scared or have no other choice, but because they love their parents, and want them to be a part of their lives. But it’s hard for whites to understand this since they are very individualistic, everything from sending their parents to nursing homes, splitting bills in restaurents, having very few to none “homies/brothers” like the black people call them.

I hold on to my first message, until you learn to respect both chinese genders equally and respect our culture, please don’t have any discussions about our culture, and keep to subjects like chinesegirl pick up lines and their bra sizes.

Kind regards Pokgai