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Extramarital Affairs in China

在中国的婚外情


Guest article by Aaron

I am a former Peace Corps volunteer who has lived and worked in both West Africa from 2007-2009 and in China from 2009-2010. I am currently living and working as an English teacher at a private school in Guiyang, Guizhou. I have a new contractual teaching job with Petro China starting in the fall and will be moving to Beijing at that time.

Er naiI am a 26 year old single American male who has lived in Guizhou province for about two years. My own dating episodes (read: misadventures) and general social observations have been discouraging but enlightening. They have led me to theorize about how the current climate of dating and marriage in Guizhou has come to be. They’ve also allowed me to predict its future. I’ve given this much thought because I’ve been trying to make sense of the current dating funk in which I find myself. All considered, I can’t help but feel that I’m fighting a losing battle. I’d like to share my conclusions.

Some of the following is rooted in my own personal experience and acts simply as a supplement in my attempt to explain the current dating and marriage climate in Guizhou specifically. However if you do believe that what I present here could be a microcosm for China, I’d like to know. I encourage and welcome your critical analysis of my conclusions so that I may better understand what I see around me as a foreigner in China.

***

Among the local girls with whom I’ve developed some kind of relationship, be it friendship or otherwise, two girls in particular have provided me with a view into Chinese dating and marriage culture.

Girl 1 admitted that SHE thinks a lot of Chinese guys cheat on their girlfriends or wives. She said she doesn’t mind as long as she adopts a “don’t ask don’t tell” policy with her future boyfriend or husband.

Girl 2 told me that she would never date a foreigner. She told me that it wasn’t necessarily because of her preferences, but because her parents would never approve. I asked her: “So your parents’ approval or satisfaction in your potential husband is more important than your own?” She answered without hesitation: “Of course”.

I’ve been hearing this idea of a collective society as part of Chinese culture ever since I arrived two years ago. In my experience, the word “harmonious” is the default adjective used by people here to describe Chinese society. I’ve never found it terribly accurate though, e.g. shameless cutting in lines or the standoffishness at the sight of a stranger in need of someone’s serious help. But when it comes to dating and marital protocol, it becomes much more accurate.

I’d say most people, and this includes girls who are dating, don’t necessarily always make decisions in their own best interest. They make decisions based on what’s better for the whole, meaning for the parents, for relatives, for friends, etc. (collectively called guan xi). So the person a girl eventually marries may not necessarily be the one she really wants to be with. He’s just a better match for the bigger picture. Several Chinese people, aside from girl 2, have agreed with this conclusion.

I don’t think it’s much of a stretch then to assume that having affairs is typical for this reason. And assuming that divorce is not in the best interest of the whole, especially if children are involved, it seems only natural that one eventually grows tired and anxious in a perhaps loveless marriage. He or she may then decide not to get divorced but just simply to have an affair. And both the man and the woman will observe a “don’t ask don’t tell” policy to prevent making any waves in the “harmony” of the marriage, family, or whole (see girl 1).

A study done by the University of Chicago presented in 2005 tried to find the frequency of extramarital affairs in urban China in a given 12 month period. The study found that as of the year 2000, 20.6% of the total men surveyed (1,240) and 3.9% of the total women surveyed (1,275) were having extramarital affairs. Regardless of your confidence in the accuracy of these results, it’s extremely important to note that they represent the frequency within one 12 month period only. Had the study extended it’s scope to include a broader period of time, say a few years or maybe even ever, the percentages would have almost certainly been profoundly higher.

My observations and personal experiences are a testament to these numbers as well. Particular “salons” , “massage parlors”, or “KTVs” and other discrete prostitution venues seem to be common. Sometimes there may be a pink florescent light, a provocative sign, or even a young promiscuously dressed woman inviting one to enter. I’d think it safe to assume that since there is an abundant supply of such services, be it obvious or discrete, that there must be an equivalent demand, otherwise such venues simply wouldn’t exist. And therefore safe to assume that at least some of the clientele is of the married kind. The study also divided extramarital affairs into casual and commercial, of which 8.8% of the men fell into the commercial category.

I’m told Guizhou is one of the poorest provinces in China. I kept this in mind when a Chinese girl whom I know at a local university told me that some of her classmates in fact actively pursue becoming a “second wife” to a wealthy man. I can believe this and my observations of these supposed second wives help me to understand why. At a bar or nightclub, one will see girls who might fit the description of these second wives- young and attractive, early twenties perhaps, toting name brand everything, enjoying the most expensive drinks, wanting to attract only a certain financial caliber of man, blind and indifferent to all other pursuers.

It’s suggestive that being a second wife pays well or that the high price to pay in order to become one is well worth the investment. Such observations may easily be unfair and inaccurate, but one can’t help but deduce certain things from such observations in order to explain what he sees if indeed living in a “poor” place. Being a mistress means a stable source of income for a girl, most likely considerably more than she could be paid working a normal part time job. But more importantly it means income for her family. Again, acting in the best interests of the whole.

Compounding this phenomenon is the fact that there is a significant gender imbalance in this country. According to the 2010 Chinese census, 51.27% of the population was male and 48.73% female. These percentages don’t seem that terribly unbalanced until one considers the size of the entire population revealed in the same census: 1,370,536,875. Doing the math, one arrives at a figure of close to 34 million males for which there is currently no female equivalent. 70.14% of the entire population given in the census was in an age group of likely marriageability (15-59). Majority of the 34 million will be in this age group. So a separate number, reflecting those who may be currently pursuing a wife among the 34 million, will be smaller but still quite large. One can simply consider the 1.057 male/female sex ratio for the 15-64 age group. There is a definite gender imbalance in China today.

Enter China’s one child policy. Most Chinese today still live in rural areas, 50.32% according to the census. The rural inhabitants, some of whom are allowed to have only one child, seem to prefer a male so that he can presumably meet more of the physical demands of life in a rural area (work on a farm). Also, this is in addition to what seems to be an already cultural preference for male children. For these reasons, many make reference to sex-specifc abortions as a cause for the imbalance. Predictably, it is forbidden for a doctor to tell expecting parents the sex of their baby in fear that they will abort it if female.

Keeping in mind the large difference between the Chinese male and female populations, enter the economic law of supply and demand. The supply of bachelorettes is low because of the One Child Policy. The demand for them high because there are so many more men than women. This scarcity, and the resultant profitability, may make some women seriously consider the possibility of becoming a mistress. Additionally, when a significant amount of the men also actively seek out extramarital affairs, meaning a further increase in demand, this then makes becoming a mistress an even more attractive option because it has become just that much more potentially lucrative.

Dating and eventual marriage thus become a kind of high price auction. A partner then is chosen based not on personality or even physical appearance to a certain degree, but rather is calculated on financial longevity. Relationships and marriages then resemble more that of the inner workings of a corporation than anything else. The collective interests of stockholders will dictate the decisions of the possibly reluctant CEO. For in any other case, the CEO will undoubtedly face unwanted heat generated by the disapproval of her stockholders.

So putting all of this together, my final conclusion in its rawest form is as follows: the particularly Chinese cultural characteristic of acting in the interests of the whole, coupled with the ongoing effects of the One Child Policy, have established the foundation for the current and future states of marriage and dating in a “poor” province such as Guizhou. They render extramarital affairs commonplace and will consequently call for increasing numbers of young girls to supply the demand for seemingly well paid mistresses. This, in effect, will only cause the frequency of such extramarital affairs to increase even further.

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  • Guy

    I am an expat living and working in Shenzhen. I dealt with amples of business men in China. I can tell you that from my
    experience, 100% of them have extra marital affairs.

    So, when Chinese people tell me about how they value tradition and family. I just take it with a grain of salt.

    • http://wanderingamericantravelblog.blogspot.com/ WanderingAmerican

      true that

    • Bill

      “So, when Chinese people tell me about how they value tradition and family. I just take it with a grain of salt.”

      What Chinese do is value the idea of tradition and family. And since this is virtually universal amongst Chinese, all play their part to maintain it, whether real or imagined, lest the opprobrium of the group rain down upon them.

      But I also think most of us are applying our idea of family and marriage to Chinese. Both Chinese and Westerners think in terms financial success for a marriage, but a Chinese man’s big obligation ends there while Westerners further value the presence and effort of the man at home. I’m generalizing, of course, as I know both types in the US, but the Western model is more prevalent here in the USA.

      From what I’ve seen of the Chinese I know, there is never any incentive to grow or change or work at the marriage since the major obligations have been met. So, as folks have said here, you end up with a marriage to keep up appearances (and for the ancestors, who I guess are not too picky).

      Chinese culture is still a man’s world in this way. But it looks like some women are voting with their feet.

  • http://www.shanghaidawei.com ziccawei

    In Shanghai I would say the situation is exactly as Guy describes. Guys have affairs with their co-workers, assistants, underlings, etc etc. Plus all the usual situations with ktv girls and sauna girls.

    I know a girl who has had affairs with two married men, both of them her bosses. She was ‘relieved of her duties’ at the first job because the affair was made public in the company. She told me of a friend of hers who had an affair with her boss, one of her top customers and a supplier.

    I know another guy who regularly visits ktv and sex sauna places behind his wifes back.

    I am sure that not all Chinese guys do this, but it seems very common for guys that have a semi-decent job and a bit of cash. This is married life in New China.

    In a way I kind of understand why so many girls don’t want to get married these days in China – it comes down to trust and they probably feel there is none.

  • http://www.lovelovechina.com Crystal

    By the way, those 8.8% of urban Chinese who had commercial sex during the last 12 months – it’s 8.8% of the whole urban population.

    Let’s extrapolate this data for Shanghai, for example.
    2010 census gives such figures. Total population is 23 million. So – if half are men, 65% in the age group 18 to 60 – then the figure 8.8% means more than 650.000 Shanghainese men having commercial sex every year!!

    • http://www.shanghaidawei.com ziccawei

      Given the high number of sex saunas, ktv bars, barber shops, nightclubs, bars etc etc – plus all the working girls that work independently and 650,000 doesn’t sound an unreasonable number.

      I was told by a Chinese person that all these commercial sex establishments cater only for foreigners which is just laughable.

  • HubeiJames

    China ranks higher than the rest of Asia (including Japan and S. Korea) when it comes to gender equality (well, having less inequality); in terms of economic participation, education and health, women do fairly well here.

    But socially and culturally, it seems like things are lagging behind or even regressing. :sad:

    • http://www.shanghaidawei.com ziccawei

      Very true. China has a very high number of women that do well academically and in the workplace. Many ceo’s or company managers are female in China. Also a very high number of self-made female millionaires etc.

      • Justice

        Chinese women do better generally than the men because of their traditional view of sex.In the past (maybe even now),many families fancied having boys who were thought to be more stronger and energetic to endure harsh and strenous working conditions to save their families from poverty.
        The case in China is the direct opposite of the Western ideas for having male children.
        The families worship the male children at the neglect of the girls. It is not uncommon to witness that in China, if you visit a family which happens to have male and female children, the girls have higher educational achievements while the boys have none.Never even finished grade six.
        The parents must provide a house and a car-I mean all the necessary things- for the boys when they get married. The girls don’t have this privilege. Most of the families save all their life to buy a house for their boy child.
        So in effect the girls have assumed the role of boys.
        If you have ever been a teacher in China, you will understand this. At almost all levels of Chinese schools, the girls are always the best students. :mrgreen:
        Myself as an example.My wife (with a college degree and Chinese) has a younger brother who never even finished grade 6. At age 20, he married so parents were forced to buy a house for him. Family members sent money during the wedding.The money was also enough to buy him a car so now at the age of 20 he only drives his car around and eats. No job

  • Orthodox

    And the mistress, if she is faithful, is just polygamy by another name. Which means there are even fewer women for men who do want to get married.

    • http://blog.sina.com.cn/woaibabamamabaobao1314 Elijah

      Yes, I was just about to point that out as well, but in an economic sense, that will just drive the value for each woman up, which I suppose is good for the women.

      But then again, we can already see tour groups of men going to other places such as Vietnam or Cambodia or wherever to find wives cheaper and who will be the stereotypical submissive, stay at home, traditional wife that chinese men seem to be so obsessed with.

      Great post, however I would argue that your definition of GaunXi isn’t quite accurate, as it can also include connections on the job or with officials. I think “special relationship” or “connection” would the best translation of it.

      Cheers! :cool:

  • Bored in Melbourne

    Kind of off topic, but I found there are a lot of photos such as the one of the girl above where they are clearly taken in a hotel room, which are used in online dating sites.
    It suggested to me that they are in the business of having affairs or hunting for an expat or passing foreigner either just for sex/money or a visa.

    Perhaps though I am wrong and they are screwing a bunch of local men in hotels instead/as well?

    • hubeijames

      I don’t see why they wouldn’t. Hotels are convenient places for discrete sex for everyone everywhere, right?

      The mistress might not have her own private place, the man probably has an unspoken understanding with his wife that it’s OK as long as it’s not in her face, and it’s a minor expense on top of what the mistress is being paid. While apparently lots of men have money to throw at their modern concubines, I expect fewer of them can afford to buy a separate house for her!

    • http://www.lovelovechina.com Crystal

      I assume you mean international dating sites?

      Which means that they are full of profiles of mistresses ending their domestic “career” and looking for overseas “sugar daddies” :?:

      • Bored in Melbourne

        I guess they could be international sites but it was certainly the case that these women have been based in Asia, not in Australia. This being the case I ignore them anyway as you know my preference is for a local partner always has been. But I’d say your observation is correct and whether intentional or not by having the photos taken by their lover in a hotel room they are certain advertising what they are prepared to offer.

  • http://www.shanghaidawei.com ziccawei

    Did anyone hear of that ‘er nai’ site that got shut down by the govt? A group of Chinese guys were acting as agents and charging rich guys up to 100k rmb to find them the er nai of their choice.

  • Craig

    Of course people are having affairs. They work long hours, suffer indignities in every aspect of life, and rarely see their mates.

    Don’t forget. its not just partners that get cheated on. The men have to be cheating with someone. And it’s not just prostitutes or er nai.

    In Seoul I see the same effect. The problem is the thinking that Asian cultures are more family-centred and western cultures are more individually-centred. This is a myth. In Asia, I’ve found the culture to be extremely hostile to family life, but very friendly to family obligations. Meaning you own others but get no chance to interact with them except for duties.

    A lot of marriages seem to be that way. And women at work, in life, etc. are cheating as much as men, but even commenters seem uncomfortable pointing this out, as if it’s impolite.

    The men have to be cheating with someone, and it’s not all er nai. And these er nai must also have boyfriends or others around, who they’re cheating on or cheating with.

    basically, the impolite thing to say is this:

    In Asia generally, in industrial society (Korea for sure, I don’t know about China): The family unit is breaking own.

    Monogamy is meaningless.

    Instead of monogamy, you have transactional sex.

    Whether it’s marriage for car and house, a prostitute’s favours, lovers who meet in the afternoon because they like each other –

    everything has a value and is a social or material exchange, or both.

    In that climate, of course men will cheat.

    What nobody seems to want to say is:

    Of course, women will cheat, too.

    • Bored in Melbourne

      Craig I totally agree with you

    • http://www.shanghaidawei.com ziccawei

      I agree with you too Craig. It’s just that Crystal bullies us if we aren’t polite.

      :cool:

  • Alphonse

    The most accurate post i ever seen in this blog!
    Same as zhejiang .

  • Craig

    I don’t think Crystal is a bully.

    I think there’s a sense in Asia that there are things you can say (men are cheaters!) but things you can’t say (Women cheat all the time, too!). There’s a kind of misplaced chivalry when it comes to talking about the more base natures of women, but no resistance about talking the baser natures of Asian men.

    What I find amusing is this: the stereotype is that Asian men won’t cheat, and Western men are playboys.

    In fact, what I’ve found is this, in a practical sense:

    - Asian men are quiet about it, but virtually every single Korean guy I know cheats. Wives, girlfriends, lovers – there’s just no sense of loyalty at all. Except for work and money: The man goes home.

    but sexual loyalty? Zero.

    - The men are cheating with, … female co-workers, largely; occasionally sex-workers (karaoke girls, etc.); and female friends, AND women they meet randomly.

    Almost all of these women I know are also taken.

    Many of the married women I know are cheating. But it’s one of these quietly open secrets here.

    I know husbands (typical working men) who spend maybe 3-4 hours a week with their families; they spend more time with the secretaries at their offices than with friends or family. When they end up in a love hotel with a co-worker, it’s so predictable it’s not interesting.

    I’ve been approached by potentially interested women. What’s normal is this: about half the time, they’re married or otherwise taken.

    Marriage seems to be an obligation and formal business deal here. I don’t see much else.

    But all of the stereotypes are still very strong.

    I’m not sure about Taiwan, or HK, but my impression is that Korea isn’t far from the norm for the rest of Asia.

    I find it sad, but I’m a foreigner – I’m not making any value judgments. I can say this:

    My father ate almost every dinner at home with his family. he considered it a brutal hardship to have to skip family time. And we appreciated it. I knew both of my parents very well. My father was a daily and onmipresent figure in my life.

    In Korea, I haven’t seen any great examples of strong family life. 50% of Korean women are still housewives, so they have strong bonds with their kids; but that seems to be the only relationship that exists at all.

  • http://www.shanghaidawei.com ziccawei

    That’s kind of what I think too Craig. I have fond memories of family time – my dad spending time with me and my brother and sister when we were kids. I meet a lot of people that seem to have had no family time like that. Dad always ‘away’ working or simply too busy. Family values seem to be getting screwed up across Asia which, for the people that seem to hold family values so highly, is strange.

    • Bored in Melbourne

      When they see their parents screw around and they are willing to give up the family for the sake of money, of course they are raising the common girl and guy to be greedy and lacking principles. Corruption is the official system.

  • Moroes

    Hookers are one of the better things happening in China. Its ethical and true to its world. Its stringless deals are real deals. And hardly do you find hooker scams. Far beyond more tea scams and let’s practice English scams I tell ya! Hookers actually follow through and deliver the verbal agreemants they made with you. How many other industries can do this in China? These Saunas and KTVs are running like First Class Service Business that will even blow Cathay and Sinagpore Airlines Away! The manners and service are unreal you’d wish China as a country run like them.

    Anyways most Chinese families don’t look so happy. When you look at most Chinese families they are just bonded by Surname and money. If little average 18 year old little Jonny Lees could make money and run away from his family he would! He hates his naggy mama that nags all day to study all day long. Papa ain’t home cuz he thinks he is doing over time work again. But really its just Papa can’t stand naggy mama so he’s actually at a KTV! WHen little jonny gets to the real world and finds out his degree is worthless paper that his mama made him work so hard for he’s gonna go nuts and depressed! His little pay check can’t even pay for rent for a 500 sq ft old shat box. The kids are depressed here. Papa only knows how to buy material to make the family happy. He hasn’t communicate much with his Children or wife. Wifey is too busy at the salon making her bird nest shape hair with all her tai tai friends. Nagging and Bragging all day long. Feel sorry for the hair dressing guys, even gay guys can’t stand a group of nagging bragging tai tais. Little angel daughters are not so angel when they enter into the KTV/Sauna world. They will get reccomended by friends telling them its the cool thing to do. For the youth. Cool young guys spend all their time playing world of warcraft. I mean what you expect them to do since Mama made them stay all day at home trying to get him to study. Cool young chicks spend their time at KTVs earning big bucks from them old men. Them girls are smart they do this in areas they know papa won’t go to.

    Forget about about extramarital affairs cuz its too tiny of an issue. The bigger picture is that it really is a loveless family life in China. China in the future will just be loveless Family Trees all over the place. People only see men and women cheating on each other. But the kids cheat and so do grand parents! Cheating throughout the whole family tree!

    • http://www.lovelovechina.com Crystal

      WOW! What a lively description.

      You must write scripts for TV series. :lol:

      • sarah

        Hi Crystal I know you try to help better understanding between foreign guys and Chinese gals. Reading the stats about gender imbalance in China again makes me think that maybe you should stop this blog. Encouraging the foreign guys to pursue Chinese girls doesn’t help! This is my last comment to you. Good luck.

        • Bored in Melbourne

          Sarah, are you Chinese or European background? What is your particular issue with cross-cultural relationships?

          Not everyone here is in a relationship or looking for a relationship with a woman in China. There are Chinese people all over the world and speaking for myself I have only ever dated or been in a relationship with a Chinese woman who was already living in my city in Australia.
          This is hardly adding to any gender imbalance.

          • http://www.shanghaidawei.com ziccawei

            Blaming foreign guys for the gender imbalance in China is just ludicrous.

            The One Child Policy did a perfectly good job of doing that.

            2020 – 30 million Chinese males without any chance of finding a woman.

        • Guy

          Give me a break. There isn’t anything Crystal can do to change the imbalances or perception of modern Chinese society.

          If anything, this blog brings light to many foreigners. I am an Chinese expat myself, I can also say I am much more critical about what goes on in China than most Chinese are willing to admit.

    • 3jay

      lol :D

  • Kevin

    Taiwan has all of this, but not in such degree. Actually, more and more parents, including fathers, are spending weekend quality-time with their kids. And fewer and fewer young married couples are bothering to have kids, so they either get on with each other or get divorced.

  • Ed en Vadrouille

    I work in the Spirits industry in Taiwan. Because of this, in the recent past, I often had to tour piano-bars, 酒店 (KTV with hostesses), or similar kind of places. I found there is a social pressure from your colleagues to “sin together” to become “brothers”.
    Once I was drinking in a piano bar with the boss of the mafia in Tainan county, and one of the boss of the police for the same area. I went to the toilets after a little while, and found the cop, standing up, and talking to an hostess in mandarin, saying something along the lines of “upstairs… Edouard… take care of him…” while pointing to a staircase behind a door that had just opened. At this point the girl turned to me, and in English said “Edouard, I dance, i get naked, you can touch, but nothing more, ok?”.
    Coming from a place ridden with prostitution from Eastern Europe (which is akin to modern slavery), I have never felt comfortable in these situations, and i had to be as tactful as possible to refuse the offer.
    Still it was not enough, since my colleagues insisted to bring me to a uniform club as he wanted us to get BJs together. All of the clubs he inquired about were full, at 5am in the morning on a Saturday night. He was a thirty something married man with a young child. No doubt the clubs were full with people like him.

  • Craig

    This reminds me of Seoul. It has the largest sex industry I’ve ever seen. Some estimates are as high as 12-15% of women in the country have at one time or another been in the sex industry. It’s believable, unless you’re a Korean talking to a foreigner, in which case you deny it as much as you can. But you can talk about it with other Koreans.

    But the sex industry is dwarfed by the casual sex habits of most Koreans.

  • http://www.shanghaidawei.com ziccawei

    The building I lived in previously had many girls living there that worked in the sex industry. It was glaringly obvious but no one said anything or complained about it. There were two girls who could speak English and they worked in a bar, a handful of ktv girls, a couple of girls that used their room as their work place (I would see them coming home with drunk guys twice their age – a different guy every time), a couple of streetwalkers…

    The sex industry in China is huge and will likely remain that way.

    But the original post is about extra-marital affairs. I know several foreign guys that have had ‘relationships’ with married Chinese women. They (the Chinese women) have all said that their husbands play around so they do too. Western minds might regard this as a lack of respect or something, but I think in China many marriages are just ‘face value’. It’s political (to a degree) rather than emotional or romantic. Chinese people get married to the person that has good social status etc then find someone to play around with. That’s what it appears to be anyway.

    • Guy

      Many Chinese girls have become too unrealistic about life. Thus many of them choose to enter the dark side. Lots of these girls refuse to slave away in a factory or low paying service jobs working for 2K Yuan a month, when they can easily work a couple nights and earn the equivalent.

      Girls in Shanghai or the top cities can easily bring home 2K to 5K a night sleeping with one John. The attraction to the easy money is just too difficult for many to refuse. Once a girl enters the industry, it will be very difficult for her to turn back.

      I have heard estimates that just in Shanghai alone, upwards of 500K girls are working in the field. From what I see, it will only get bigger as more and more girls want the short cuts in life.

      • Moroes

        2-5K for a one nighter are reserved for the quality top end girls. On average its 500 to 1k a night. Competition is fierce so they can’t really mark their prices too high without the right credentials.

        Let’s say an ABC girl wants to go join this Biz.

        The sex for one night is only with 500-1K a night. Sex is seriously the cheapest part of it. Any girl can just spread her legs. She can upgrade herself by speaking fluent English or showing she is of higher grade and up it to 2k a night (Like advertising that banging a US college Grad costs 2K a night). Then pretending to be like a proper girlfriend for the day/night. Its called the GFE (girlfriend experience) and can get paid 5-10K a day. Not easy to pull this off because a lot of girls in China you can so tell she’s a whore. Maybe ABCs can look more proper by the way they dress, act, moan etc.

        Pretending to be a girl where the guy looks like he picked you up with skill is highly valued. A girl that can actually hold a conversation with good topics. Most girls can’t talk properly. Most KTV girls talk like village hill billies. A girl that looks just like another paid KTV girl is not so highly valued. Its all about can you really act classy. Beautiful classy GFE whores are the costly ones.

      • Bill

        I hear what you’re saying, but when I see news stories about factories with girls (and they all seem to be girls) lined up row after row hunched over doing the same thing over and over, working 6 days a week for 2K/month … well, anyone can do the math.

        And, how many people here have done that kind of work? I have, but for only 3 months at a time in cannery work here in the US when I went to college. 6 days a week, week after week. It’s not a great life – work, eat, sleep, and you try to squeeze in some enjoyment.

        Can’t say I blame these girls. So I disagree with your statement that Chinese girls have become unrealistic about life. The reality is a life of drudgery with little chance to change that fact, unless you’re willing to ‘enter the dark side’ like just about everyone else in China who bends the rules/morals to get an advantage.

  • Moroes

    Speaking of Gender imbalance. Anyone noticed there is like a Surname imbalance. Its like 30% of the nation is surname Wang another 20% named Zhang 20% Liu 20% Li/Lee and 10% for the other MINORITY surnames. Yeah the rest just seem like minority surnames.

    • Sean

      The reason why there are so many wang’s it’s because it’s mean king. When a dynasty ended or a state vanquished, it’s common for the old royal family and their relative to switch to that name to avoid persecution. And they add up. Liu’s are common, because after Han dynasty (whose royal family name is liu), that name is claimed by entire tribe of nomads in North to give an air of legitimacy in their holds in northern China. (For example the Hun Helian clan all coverted to liu. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helian_Bobo)

      Also names like Wu, Tang, Cai, Chen etc are in fact country name during warring states. After the country is vanquished, many people take the name of the country as common identity.

  • Sean

    btw, the expertise shown by everyone about prostitution and affairs are just mind-blowing. All the time I been to China, the only time I encounter this when I was offered messages at the hotel I stayed, after I said no, the hotel person added “我们这都是陕北的姑娘, 很纯的。“ which give its purpose away. (Since I’m not about to give up my virginity to prostitutes, I said no…) But other than that, most entertainment are normal, including the KTV. And you have to seek what you are want to get that type of thing.

    Since I never dated a Chinese girl from China, I don’t know too much on the relationship side. But among all my friends that stayed in China, I really don’t see all these cheating etc, but perhaps it’s more of a business people thing rather than a engineer thing. Those there quite few people in my group that like tease or 玩暧昧, but they seldom cross the line. All these aren’t too different among 20 somethings I see in the US. The only difference is except for Christan and Mormon ones, very people I know are think about marriage, while in China, it’s on everyone’s mind. In practice though it’s all hook ups and break up, just things are more hush hush in China than here.

  • Jason

    I agree with Sean.

    I don’t know what everybody’s level of Chinese is but…maybe that can determine what types of people you come in contact with in China.

    I speak perfect and fluent Chinese, I lived in China for over a year now, I hang out with my friends, my co-workers. Me personally, I can’t imagine them doing some crazy shit that you people mention. They’re all either staying at home, or with their girlfriend. They’re just all normal people, play video games, soccer, basketball, one of them is even a devout Christian Sunday Church-goer.

    And as for the KTV bars, I’ve been to a lot of them…..never encountered the ones you people described. The ones I’ve been to are all completely professional, safe, and just clean places. If you really want it yeah the prostitutes and hookers exist. But then again I don’t go around looking for that type of stuff. Why would I need to do that?

    • Sean

      I guess the same the impression my grandma get, though she spent almost 10 years in the US in and out. “America is full of gays, drug dealers and murders”, when the only three city she’s lived in is San Francisco, Oakland, LA and New York (we lived in the Bronx too….)

      It really depend on the what environment you’re in, and what stereotypes you already have. I guess, I had being a business major doing more business rather than technical related stuff in China or if I did all the ex-pat stuff rather than native stuff I was doing, I would be more exposed to this sub-culture; but I’m not, and I’m thankful for it.

  • Moroes

    @Jason: You asking why? Its peoples’ choice of entertainment. Its like going to a Casino and asking why anyone would gamble. Sinful entertainment lives among the West too or Las Vegas would have been in ruins by now.

    As for your friends knowing who does it or who doesn’t. You never ask you never know. Sometimes they might not open up to you because they know your face will express disgust. There are a ton of Chinese guys that don’t do this but its almost a given rate they know friends that do. How common is it? Its as common as youngsters going to clubbing regularly. A ton of youngsters don’t go clubbing. But for sure they know friends that do!

    • Steve123

      I can’t say I agree or disagreed. But, where is the study? There is more divorce rate in the USA, with less people than in China.
      Why??

  • Nugz

    China really seems to be a place where love is viewed as a bartering point for personal gain. Families don’t seem to share any joy and the only time they’ll collectively smile is when the little emperor does something amusing, but look closely at the little one’s eyes upon receiving praise. Its an instilled reward system, not love and it grows with them into adulthood. Children fear their parents and the parents are forced into marriages of convenience.

    • Ed en Vadrouille

      This comment by Nugz is the perfect example of many commenters’ inability to go a mile further and try to understand the cultural specificities that lie behind some strange cultural habits.
      Yes, “You don’t understand China” is the eternal excuse used by Chinese trolls, on the internet and in real life, to pare down all critiques of their country, and yes, it is ridiculous when used like this.
      But in this precise situation, how can one make a comment like this? How can one bag a country of 1 billion soul into a land of loveless suckers without having tried to understand the finesses of instrumental love?
      Do you honestly think that 1/4 of the world’s population got into a cultural system like this without having first wondered really hard if it had any advantages at all? Do you really think they are just that dumber than us? Are you really that arrogant?

  • paul k

    my chinese wife was cheated on by her husband with a woman from my wifes factory that is where her ex meet the young woman he cheated with !!!

    my wife her ex-husband and the young mistress all worked in the same company !!!
    so as some said it goes on a lot !!!!

    my wifes sister seems she is sort of not happy in her marriage i believe !!!

    i know her husband drinks too much it was brought to my attention by the rest of the family !!!

    they just thought it was great i did not drink !!!

    you could see how happy yet sad my wifes sister was !!
    she was so happy that my wife has a new husband and not chinese but sad because it was almost like she wished she could have what her sister has !!!

    it is too bad because her sister is really one real sweet woman who deserves better at least her husband works and keeps his wife with decent things in the home and they have one boy child !!!
    i do not know if that makes things ok but that is her life !!!

    also my wifes parents like me they wish there daughter did not need to leave china but they know my wife and daughter will have more opportunities in canada !!!

    although my new chinese mother-in-law told her daughter and grand daughter not to cause me any trouble in canada or she will beat them !!! hehehe

    she also asked be a few times are you sure her daughter and grand daughter will not be a burden to me !!!

    i told my mother and father-in-law not to worry i love my wife and daughter very much and they are lovely and wonderful women and they will be a joy to have living with me !!!
    my mother and father-in-law told me the day we returned from changsha with our marriage certificates and showed them they said you are now part of our family in chinese and our daughter translated what they said !!!!

    i think my wifes mother knew in her heart that her daughter would be alone for ever in china and maybe would only find another cheat if lucky !!! so they were so happy i married her not to mention they can tell all their mahjong and card playing friends that their daughter got a canadian husband the big prize !!!! hehehe

    i told my new family mama and papa that i was not rich at all just a regular guy living from cheque to cheque but my new family will be ok and not starve !!!

    my wife and daughter want to come here and work and go to university to have a better life !!!
    my wife really talks a lot about being a complete perfect family !!!! she says this everytime almost we talk !!!

  • http://theworldaccordingtowoman.wordpress.com Gabryella

    I don’t really have time this morning to explain everything here… but I shall take the first two that came along.

    Your Girl 1 and Girl 2.

    Girl 1 is speaking from a traditional idea of China. Where it was acceptable that a man have a second wife, a mistress and such. And it was ok. It was banned out under Mao, but has returned with a vengeance simply because if capitalism was once deemed wrong and improper but now is common place and acceptable, then why not have affairs? Another reason is because it is a status symbol. You’ve been in China for two years now, you know the concept of “face” and it’s not so much of what is on the inside, but what you wear on the outside that really counts.

    Then you have the whole idea where some of these men really do not think it wrong to have a “love slave”. Sex when he wants it, a beautiful girlfriend who all his friends and co-workers know about, a woman to mother him, when his wife does not.

    Some women do pick up the don’t ask don’t tell thought, but that is no longer enough for them. Through education, literature, movies and various other art forms, women are becoming more knowledgeable in their own sexuality and wanting more from their marriages than just financial security. Traditionally, this general answer was to make sure that she kept the family harmony/peace, and not just in the family of husband, wife child, but the whole family. Her parents, siblings as well as the in-law family. And then to protect the child is there is one as well. Where it was once shameful to be the child of divorced parents, it is no longer as shameful. It still is in some parts of China.

    The other is that she has been brought up with the thought ingrained in her mind that a girl must get married to a good man (read money) so she’d not be lonely. They are taught from a young age that a woman needs a man to protect her.

    These are just a couple of the various thoughts I’ve seen and witnessed over my years here in China. There are so many more as well.

    Girl 2:  on the other hand is also giving you a traditional thought here. Chinese children are taught from a young age that they “owe” their parents for their lives and must make them happy. Which is why you have so many children going to school to learn a trade or learning to become a doctor when they want to be a teacher or an artist. The pursuit of their dreams does not usually exist unless the childs dreams match up with their parents. Chinese children will bend their wills to that of their parents, because of that deep seeded notion that because their parents gave them life, they owe them their lives.

    When it comes to dating a foreigner, it does come from more of a media attitude and an old fashioned attitude where foreign men would come to China, have their way with women then leave them pregnant and ruined. Another is the whole mixed breed of children. Perhaps you have come across the whole, “China is for Chinese” attitude of some people during your stay here in China? And as children, they are taught that the Chinese way is a great way to live. And that foreigners really don’t know what they are talking about (for example, did you know it is cold in Canada all year long? To name the only example that is in my head at the moment) because what we have to say or teach, really does not matter as it is not part of their College Entrance Exams.

    Many children are brought up beleiving that if they marry a foreigner, they will want to take them away from their families, and even if they do not come from a happy family, family ties are so very important to Chinese people. They are also brought up to beleive that all foreigners just want sex.

    And that is all I have time for to explain this morning. Hope this helps a little!!!!