What I learned from Chinabounder

ChinaBounder

Today I want to make the review of one site which made a lot of buzz when it was active (it hasn’t been updated for about two years now). I am talking about infamous blog “Sex and Shanghai” created by Chinabounder. For those who are not familiar with it – this is a collection of diary-like posts written by an anonymous teacher of English language (who later revealed his identity) in one of Shanghai’s universities. In his blog Chinabounder described in juicy details how he seduced multiple Chinese girls most of whom were his former students. However, differently from other authors of similar content Chinabounder tended to mix the explicit pornography with philosophizing about characteristics of Chinese people, Chinese politics and other topics.

To say the truth I have written the initial draft of this post long time ago (immediately after stumbling upon “Sex in Shanghai” for the first time). But at that time I was too angry to be objective. And I didn’t want to follow the footsteps of Zhang Jiehai – professor of psychology – who wrote an open letter on his site calling for a human flesh search of Chinabounder (which very well might end up in lynch if he wouldn’t flee China in time). Also I am not interested in psychological analysis of Chinabounder’s personality.
Because I found few curious thoughts in his blog and they must be judged without any relation to their author’s morality or mental state.

First thing that caught my attention were Chinabounder’s revelations regarding the nature of attraction between Western men and Chinese girls. Without trying to describe it in my own words, let me quote the whole passage:

It is — perhaps most importantly – the fact that Chinese woman is not from our culture and does not, in general, understand all the nuances and subtleties of our language and our behavior.

Now, sure, true love, two hearts beating as one, perfect understanding, total communication and all that stuff. Fuck that; that is not what guys want. This is pure horror to us; we most emphatically do not want a woman sharing every aspect of our lives, seeing into us, knowing us.

Dating someone from another culture gives us a safety zone, a barrier, so that we can keep our lives, our sense of self, our secrecies. Chinese woman will never be able to read us like white woman and that is why we want her.

Now this is not purely cynical; for, yes, we can love Chinese woman, honor her and commit to her and even (some of us, at least) be faithful to her. But we still have that buffer, that exclusion zone of secrecy where she cannot enter. No matter how married we may be, how deeply we may love Chinese woman, we are still more single and more ourselves than we would be with white woman. And this is why white woman remains invisible to us. Why would we want her, with her big body and her perfect ability to see what we really are? And so our reasons for chasing Chinese woman have some depth to them.

No matter what your emotional reaction is after reading this, one can’t deny that this guy has a good writing style and sounds quite persuasive. At least I do believe that these were the reasons why HE was after Chinese girls. But I really want to know if he was right using the word “WE”? Is his reasoning true for other Western men? Are you indeed afraid to be too close and intimate with your woman and need the space and safety barrier?

Another statement which Chinabounder repeats multiple times throughout his blog is the dullness of Chinese men comparing them to cold fishes. Understandably these kinds of sentiments were the ones that made Professor Zhang Jiehai especially angry (in fact, some time later he published a book on this topic titled “I am angry”). Chinabounder constantly stressed the difference between the characteristics of Chinese women and Chinese men. He even claimed that every time when some of his students were finding him on MSN (which was easy since he was writing his e-mail on the class board in the end of a lesson), it didn’t take him long to guess if the student was male or female: according to him Chinese men were all alike without the slightest glimpse of individuality while every Chinese girl was special and different and just had to be “allowed” to open up.

And without hiding the selfishness of his motives, Chinabounder proudly saw himself as liberator of suppressed Chinese girls. A teacher of English language in daytime, he was switching his role to a teacher of sex on nights.

I believe that Chinese women are creatures of passion, eroticism and desire, of creativity and joy in bed. But they are taught to believe all this is wrong, that it is dirty, that they should just lie back, in the dark, for the two or three minutes it takes the average Chinese guy to come. They are taught it, I say, and try to live up to it; but such is their passionate nature that they never truly believe this lesson. And so one does not have to delve very deep to bring this true nature out. A few words, some tender care, a joyful, open attitude to sex and the woman will turn from a squib to firecracker.

If this is true – then dating Chinese girls is just an ego-boosting experience for men who are not interested in equal relationships. Should I wonder now why open-minded and educated Chinese girls become leftovers? Even Woody Allen who married his stepdaughter Soon-Yi Previn (oops – Asian girl – but it’s just coincidence, right?) upon being asked whether their age difference (he was 56 and she was 22) was conducive to “a healthy, equal relationship” answered that equality is not necessarily a requirement in a relationship and added: “The heart wants what it wants. There’s no logic to those things. You meet someone and you fall in love and that’s that.

Well, here is one more lesson that Chinabounder willingly gives to his readers. It addresses Chinese girls who think that they have found their foreign prince.

I have various friends involved with foreign guys, and at the beginning of their relationships the woman has told me ‘This foreign guy is different.’ But he never is. We all lie and cheat and chase.

Trying not to be angry, Crystal Tao

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146 Comments on "What I learned from Chinabounder"

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TLB
Guest
6 years 1 month ago
Wow Crystal, I don’t even know where to begin; so I’ll let others say leave more specific comments and more insightful thoughts, and just say that this guy is a loser bigtime in my opinion, and his immoral antics, compounded by his exhibitionism in wanting to tell everyone about them, help me understand what anti-Western (especially anti-Western men) feelings there are in China. Amazing. I will quickly add that his comments about wanting/not wanting closeness are drivel and B.S. — I know quite a few Americans in relationships with Asian women, and none of them would agree with this point… Read more »
Ricky
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Ricky
6 years 1 month ago
I must say, it is one thing for a man to label himself such as chinabounder has with his actions and words, but it is a whole other thing for a man say ‘all’ men are this way. For I am not. Yes, his abuse the chinese culture for his own physical satisfaction is very enraging. Having him lump myself into his ‘class’ of men is equally so, for I am definitly not in this class of men. While it is true, there are some men in america who would probably envy this man and support his actions, I am… Read more »
Justin Liu
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Justin Liu
6 years 1 month ago
He was taking advantage of disparate socio-economic status,and exploiting the Chinese desire to get ahead in life. Woman seeking to marry up is not a new phenomenon in life nor is it confined to China. Just think back to the 19th century american industrial heiresses marrying into British aristocracy. So we shouldn’t blame the women in this case, given how hard life is for some of them, it is understandable that they would have sought an easy leg up in life. Besides in what country is status and money not important in a relationship? How long into a conversation at… Read more »
Jocelyn
Guest
6 years 1 month ago
Great post, Crystal — nice to see an evenhanded approach to a very divisive, hot topic. I think you encapsulated the problem w/ Chinabounder perfectly: If this is true – then dating Chinese girls is just an ego-boosting experience for men who are not interested in equal relationships. Reminds me of a book review for The East, the West and Sex (by Richard Bernstein) on Slate (by Johann Hari): Bernstein’s view of the role of women in his story of cultural and sexual collision is nuanced to the point of being myopic. He is describing men who went to foreign… Read more »
Joel
Guest
6 years 1 month ago
Most foreigners I know look down on people like Chinabounder (there are plenty of wannabe Chinabounders; I work with some), saying that they are losers who aren’t good enough (or are too intimidated by) women in their own culture so they go to China or some other country where being a foreigner automatically makes them more desirable and women are willing to compromise themselves for the chance to get ahead. These guys are full of disrespect toward everyone, especially women, and especially non-Western women; it’s like a kind of racism. I think he’s right in the way he talks about… Read more »
Sara
Guest
6 years 1 month ago

This is the first time I heard about this blog Sex and Shanghai. I think I’m happy not to read it because even few sentences from it made me furious. How could he say those things of Chinese people, both girls and boys. But I do know this type of men who want to use Chinese girls because in foreign country they don’t have to take it too seriously. Some of them have their girlfriends back home and another girlfriend in China.

Ziccawei
Guest
Ziccawei
6 years 1 month ago
All you guys are pathetic. A bunch of snivelling little creeps. The reason he said ‘we’ is because it mostly is TRUE. There are thousands of foreign guys in China who are here mostly to get laid. If it wasn’t their initial reason for coming to China, it soon becomes that after living here for some time. ChinaBounder had the balls to say it, and say it clearly and as it is. I would say much of what he wrote on his blog was highly accurate, both about Chinese women and their attitudes to sex and about Chinese people in… Read more »
Rick Hill
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Rick Hill
6 years 1 month ago
Elle oh elle! What kind of puss says “Sniveling little creeps”? Go to China to get away from Mother? Trying to justify, by saying thousands, your sad little world? So, you are not attractive enough to easily get laid back home and not being able to make up for it by having character and a real personality, you are the big stud in a country where your being different go a long way? Every country has women who can be manipulated, you just can’t do it back home. Far as Ms Crystals relationship, I’ve seen a photo of the two… Read more »
Ziccawei
Guest
Ziccawei
6 years 1 month ago
Don’t give me any of your half-arsed assumptions. I’m not one of these barrell-gutted Australians you find in Shanghai sports bars surrounding himself with bar sluts. But to imagine or believe that many guys do not come to China and treat it as their own personal Disneyland with Chinese girls is ridiculous. ChinaBounder just said what many MANY guys talk about in bars. Getting laid with lots of Chinese guys, as many as they can. The difference being that he may have done exactly that while the fat Aussie guys in the bars didn’t. Unless they paid for it. Quite… Read more »
anon
Guest
anon
5 years 7 months ago

shaming language……loser

Crystal
Guest
6 years 1 month ago

Dear Ziccawei,

I am not surprised with the contents of your comment, only a little bit surprised with its tone, but who am I to judge you? :smile:

I have only one question for you and would be grateful for your response: what exactly in my post made you think that I am not loyal to Chinese men?
Reason for this question is simple: I am trying to improve my writing style and it is important for me to correctly express myself.

Thanks.

Ziccawei
Guest
Ziccawei
6 years 1 month ago
Ok, so you have a foreign boyfriend and I am sure he is just wonderful. But tell me this. How many times in ChongQing have you had sideways glances from local CQ guys as you walk down the street with your boyfriend? How many remarks have you half-heard? No doubt you’re going to tell me the opposite but if your parents have met him did they speak to you afterwards (in the kind of scene that might be from a Woody Allen movie) and say ‘but wouldn’t you like a nice Chinese boy, honey?’. What about this – what is… Read more »
Darren
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Darren
6 years 1 month ago

Just because that sort of behavior is acceptable in Western society doesn’t mean it is everywhere else nor does it mean the rest of the world is obligated to change their values to accommodate the decaying moral values of the West.

Standing up for women is called honor – a virtue that you obviously lack. While I wouldn’t say that China is entirely with honor, they obviously have far more of it than you given the way you view women.

Ziccawei
Guest
Ziccawei
6 years 1 month ago

How do I view women, Darren?

For one, I don’t think that they are completely without any value or worth once they reach 30.

Oh, but in China they do.

anon
Guest
anon
5 years 7 months ago

white knighting pussy

Teacher in China
Guest
Teacher in China
6 years 1 month ago
Wow, over the top much? I realize you’re trolling to get a reaction, but I have some thoughts to share about some of your comments. “The reason he said ‘we’ is because it mostly is TRUE. There are thousands of foreign guys in China who are here mostly to get laid.” Simply not true. Check out Chinageeks’ survey on this. People come to China (as they go anywhere in the world) for a wide variety of reasons. The fact that, once they are here, they get excited about getting laid is irrelevant. They are, after all, men. Men enjoy getting… Read more »
Ziccawei
Guest
Ziccawei
6 years 1 month ago

We don’t have douchebags in England. That’s an American thing. We have twats.

:mrgreen:

anon
Guest
anon
5 years 7 months ago
you are completely mistaken. English men get laid plenty. The sexual jealously that causes such a toxic reaction to Chinabounder is a result of not getting laid enough. Ziccawei makes sense and the effeminate shaming language used against him is as a result of sexually naive men placing women on a pedestal. Mature English men realise that modern English women are in charge of their own sexuality, sleep around like sailors and worthy men take advantage of that. Of course this is bad for men, women and society but English men can deal with Chinese men shagging their sluts much… Read more »
jazz888
Guest
jazz888
2 years 7 months ago

That is a heaping pile of crap. The only thing you’ve done is indited yourself as another people of shit. Many foreign guys, whether they’re true expats sent her by companies, diplomats, or students, are not so degenerate.

It depresses me that these scum-bag opportunists are allowed in this country.

TLB
Guest
6 years 1 month ago
@Ziccawei, are Chinese women supposed to have “loyalty” to Chinese men? If so, why? I (as an American man) don’t have any feelings that American women are supposed to be “loyal” to American men (except the specific ones they’re in relationship with). If my daughter wants to marry someone from another culture, that in itself would be no problem for me. But more to your point (which is very badly stated in that it’s so insulting to those you disagree with): I agree that perhaps ChinaBounder is accurate in some of his depictions of some people. What we “pathetic” guys… Read more »
Ziccawei
Guest
Ziccawei
6 years 1 month ago

China, Chinese people and Chinese culture dictates that Chinese women should be loyal to Chinese men.
In America it’s not like that because America is much more developed than China despite the fact that it only has about 300 years of history.
Or maybe that’s it. When America has 5000 years they will close themselves off from the rest of the world, who knows?

:mrgreen:

James
Guest
6 years 1 month ago

Yikes. I just read part of his blog and he comes off as delusional to me by trying to back up his behavior with questionable observations of Chinese people. I certainly don’t agree with him about Western men looking for Asian women to have a comfort zone. Maybe that’s just me though. I’m a fairly understanding person but reading about how he took advantage of all those women really turned my stomach. It looks like chivalry is dead in the UK. :sad:

Mark
Guest
6 years 1 month ago
When people outside of China ask me what China’s like, I tell them “China is something for everybody.” In regards to women, if you want to find the love of your life, you can find her in China. If you want to drown in a whirlpool of endless flesh, you can in China. Chinabounder’s experiences are not unbelievable and more common than people think, but he doesn’t speak for the whole male kingdom. In China, you can make your own morality, and some people choose to ignore theirs completely. It’s just a bummer that the douchebags get more press than… Read more »
WoAi
Guest
6 years 1 month ago
I really do not know where to begin so I’ll just jump right in. Firstly I have to say I have in my 11 years in China seen MANY guys like ChinaBounder, many of whom I call LBH (losers back home) who come here and find suddenly lots of Chinese girls who can’t wait to sleep with them. One of my best friends was experiencing such a similar situation to ChinaBounder that I actually thought he WAS ChinaBounder. He used to teach and so many girls would sit there watching him with admiring eyes, flirting, asking for his number, making… Read more »
Justin Liu
Guest
Justin Liu
6 years 1 month ago

Does that make you a BBC?

I think what you’ve said is probably true though I don’t know much about the situation, and as for Chinese girls who lust after white guys and look down on you, no loss really. Would you have wanted to date someone so lacking in perspective?

(It’s totally coincidental but a British born Chinese is BBC, a Canadian born Chinese is CBC and an American born Chinese is ABC, They’re all television stations in the respective countries)

WoAi
Guest
6 years 1 month ago

Interesting observation but it’s NOT coincidence. “B” stands for “British” so obviously the British TV station will be British. “A” stands for American so obviously the American TV station would be called ABC.

Teacher in China
Guest
Teacher in China
6 years 1 month ago

“it does irritate me that many girls here are with white guys who are total losers, but they find them fascinating and amusing. They don’t seem to possess the ability to see that the guy is a dick.”
How many times have I met hot, sweet, lovely girls back home who are also with total dicks? More times than I can count.
There, someone read your comment – happy now? :mrgreen:

anon
Guest
anon
5 years 7 months ago
amen Teacher in China. WoAi is rational and I respect his comments but you hit the nail on the head. Men, whether Chinese or Western, are blind to the true nature of women (as are lots of women). Women want masculine men. Chinese men, i.m.o. are more committed to their wives and children that Western men. Most are kind, intelligent, loyal and hard-working.They can’t even get a girlfriend without turning her into a second wife. Unfortunately for them, these qualities are required to create a successful society but not to be a successful seducer for short term success in the… Read more »
Ziccawei
Guest
Ziccawei
6 years 1 month ago

I would say that about 99% of male foreigners here are losers.

:mrgreen:

ahkiwi
Guest
ahkiwi
6 years 1 month ago

I hope you’re including yourself in that :razz:

It doesn’t matter where you go, you’ll always find a$$hats, both male and female. We’re human after all is said and done.
Would I do what Chinabounder did … I don’t think so, it’s not how I’ve been brought up.

anon
Guest
anon
5 years 7 months ago
means that you are either highly intelligent and low in testosterone so you can exercise self-control or you are not good enough to get away with what Chinabounder did. Very masculine men can sleep around and not get into trouble for it. Sensitive men, weak men, no matter how physically beautiful will experience major drama trying to sleep around in China. Bill Clinton had interns giving him blow jobs in the Oval office and he got away with it. He is a leader amongst men. Guys who turn down easy sex because they were well raised build civilizations, split the… Read more »
Darren
Guest
Darren
6 years 1 month ago

Anyone who isn’t a sociopath lacking honor like you is a loser. Got it. :x

c
Guest
c
6 years 1 month ago

It’s a different matter to write about his sexual experiences with “Chinese” women from China but writing a book slandering China…is a dangerous path to walk…especially when you’re provoking the Chinese triads which is very active everywhere in developed countries.

Hans Engnell
Guest
6 years 1 month ago
I can only speak for myself, obviously, but I don’t agree with Chinabounder one bit. The reasons he mentions is not why I was looking for a Chinese girlfriend. I have discussed, however, barriers with my girlfriend. In the sense of having space, being able to see friends and having interests without sharing every minute together. That is important to me. But that is not having “secrets” from her in any way. Sometime I might want to see a male friend over a beer and chat with him. That’s it. During almost two years of talking to other guys looking… Read more »
Bill
Guest
Bill
6 years 1 month ago
Speaking of barriers, I’ve been with my Beijing born wife for 18 years now. The language and culture barriers are always there and how one reacts to it can be either a major positive or negative. One, it’s a constant source of interest. Since we are both interested in each other’s culture, we are always learning and explaining the nuances. These exchanges can get rather pointed since both of us are ‘equal opportunity’ critics (and admirers) of both cultures. We have discussed and compared American and Chinese men and women – the positives and negatives. Second, and I find this… Read more »
anon
Guest
anon
5 years 7 months ago
how many of them have a famous blog? IQ difference? Higher IQ men get laid more? Men who get laid a lot change their opinions of women when they see through the games that women play? Women are just as sexual as men but have to fake chasteness because sluttiness is a big turn off for high quality provider males. If you are in your mid to late 20’s and not getting laid like a carpet in China you are a sexually low value male, no matter how much money your earn, no matter how intelligent you are and no… Read more »
Jeff
Guest
Jeff
6 years 1 month ago
I clicked through the link to the Sex and Shanghai blog, but I found it rather too tedious and dull to read very far. I think there are some men who behave in that way to women in the West. I would think that a man in the position of being a teacher, and taking advantage of young female students, would be thought very poorly of by most people, in any country. Perhaps an English teacher in China has greater opportunity for such behaviour. I have insufficient knowledge to be able to make generic judgements about the character of Westerners… Read more »
Teacher in China
Guest
Teacher in China
6 years 1 month ago

Nicely put Jeff, I agree with you 100%

Ziccawei
Guest
Ziccawei
6 years 1 month ago

Sorry Crystal, clearly I seem to be offending people on your blog.
I’ll clear off.
See you!
Bye!
:cool:

WoAi
Guest
6 years 1 month ago

Was my comment invisible to everyone???

Cedric
Guest
Cedric
6 years 1 month ago

I will tell my opinion : best thing is to live a happy life in China without have anything to do with sex or romance. Get friends, have fun, be intelligent and interested, and everything will be fine :0)!

Fili
Guest
6 years 1 month ago
Wow. Quite the discussion. It’s interesting your posts always bring up an interaction. There are many Chinabounders. When I wrote about him way back on my blog I compared him to another Israeli guy who did the same type of thing in Israel, with even more degrading descriptions, but the main difference was that in the Chinese case this was turned into a social problem where Chinabounder represents either foreign men in China or men in general, whereas the Israeli case some people hated him, some people (many of them females) loved him but everyone just let him be and… Read more »
armo
Guest
armo
6 years 1 month ago
who is this Israeli blogger ? can u send a link ? – must be interesting ! as to chinabounder, when reading the (Chinese) comments on his blog, I was reminded of comments i find in a site called “china smack”. It seems that any sexual relationship between laowai and local girls raises a big amount of nationalistic responses. Personally I find this fact a bit scary… I wonder why miss crystal finds that the state of the Chinese female reputation is worrying, whilst overlooking the flaming waves of hate directed at man who has committed no crime… a fact… Read more »
anon
Guest
anon
5 years 7 months ago
Fili knows what’s up. In every country, some men like pussy too much and dedicate so much of their lives to it they get laid a lot. Hardly every turns out well. Indulging yourself in anything: food, drugs, women is a sign of weakness of character and should be cut out. Naturally happens as men age and testosterone and looks fall away. However, women are fascinated by men who fuck a lot. Sorry guys, some of you hate to hear this. If a man has sex with lots of women, some virginal and chaste girls will want to sleep with… Read more »
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